Why Did Elizabeth Smart’s Uncle Call Her Kidnapping a “Wonderful and Amazing Story?”

I hope my readers will indulge me with one more post about the Elizabeth Smart case. I have to be honest with myself and you. I take such strong issue with this case because if Elizabeth and her family have not been completely honest about her “ordeal,” or if they have outright lied about it, then this draws anger from me because of the countless victims of child sexual abuse and rape who struggle to be believed, and to believe themselves. People who lie about rape and abuse, provide shelter for perpetrators and deny truth and a voice to real victims.

So, in my daily attempt to be honest with myself and my readers, I need to address another problem I have with the Smart family:

One of my readers reminded me of an interview given about a week after Elizabeth Smart went missing. The interview was given to CNN’s Nancy Grace, by Tom Smart, Ed Smart’s brother.

Nancy Grace: “Tom Smart, message to the kidnapper tonight, what do you have to say?”

Tom: “We all have issues. Anybody’s taken — we’ve been ripped apart to the core. And we understand that everybody has issues. And we pray hard that whoever this is will know that the family is full of compassion towards everybody because this is a wonderful story, in a lot of ways.”

My first instinct when I read this was, “A wonderful story???”

Without any knowledge of who has the teen or what they are doing with her, why would Tom Smart say it is a “wonderful story?” How did he not know that -at that very moment- his niece was not having her throat slit, being sodomized, or being shipped off to a foreign country for sex slavery?

Has anyone ever heard the family of a kidnapped child call it a “wonderful story” shortly after the child is taken and before anyone knows if they are dead, alive, being enslaved and raped repeatedly, or who has her?

Tom Smart: “Because it’s about, foremost, a beautiful, little angelic girl. But it’s also about — everybody has issues no matter what. It crosses the boundaries on everything. It’s an amazing story.”

An amazing story?!!! It crosses the boundaries on everything? What exactly crosses the boundaries, and what boundaries?

These remarks about her story being wonderful and amazing, coupled with “everyone has issues” tell me that the following scenario is highly plausible: The family knew that Elizabeth had talked to someone before the night of the kidnapping and she pre-arranged to go with him.

One does not say that a child rapist, child murderer, or someone who has enslaved children into the sex trade industry, merely has “issues.” Did they say this to soften the heart of the kidnapper? Maybe.

Someone might argue that the Smarts thought the man who took her “just likes her.” Maybe so, but stay with me for a minute…

Remember in 2002, when America was riveted by the case of seven year-old Danielle Van Dam? Danielle was taken from her home in the suburban ‘bliss’ of beautiful San Diego California. Her body, found a month later, was discarded in a remote area, as if it were a piece of trash.

https://i2.wp.com/wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2003/01/08/image535670g.jpg

David Westerfield, a neighbor of the Van Dams, was convicted of the kidnapping and murder of little Danielle. Child pornography had been downloaded on his computer, and his pornography collection included bestiality and a video of a very young girl being raped. One of Danielle’s fingerprints was found on the headboard of the bed inside Westerfield’s motor home. The fingerprint was in a position indicating she might have been raped there.

David Westerfield “liked” Danielle enough to want to go into the Van Dam home, steal her away, rape her, and murder her within a few days. How did the Smarts know that Elizabeth was not taken by a man with intentions just like Westerfield? Or was the amazing story that “crosses all boundaries” really about a so-called angelic young teen, who met someone that talked her into going on a religious mission, or that she became infatuated with him and wanted an adventure? Or that Elizabeth became attracted to Mitchell because of his religious message and that she allowed him to talk her into going off with him to be his spiritual wife, only to be surprised by Wanda Barzee being a part of the deal and that Mitchell was not the prophet he had proclaimed to be?

https://i1.wp.com/images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2002/07/17-samantha-inside.jpg

(Five year-old Samantha Runnion)

Following the murder of Danielle Van Dam, a virus of child abduction cases quickly swept across the United States, including the well-known case of little Samantha Runnion, who was also taken by a child sexual abuser. She too was murdered and discarded like trash a few days after she was abducted. Samantha Runnion was an angel, no doubt about that. Elizabeth Smart? Maybe only an angel in the eyes of her family.

https://i1.wp.com/i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2008/02/06/runnionx.jpg

Can you imagine what the press and public would do if Samantha Runnion’s mother, or the Van Dams had appeared on CNN and proclaimed that the kidnapping of their child was “an amazing story,” “a wonderful story?” Look at Samantha Runnion’s mother holding her child’s photo, can you honestly see this mother having said that her child’s abduction is an amazing and wonderful story while she was still missing and presumed taken by a man who wanted to have sex with her?

The night Elizabeth Smart was taken from her bed, the unknown man had a “long hunting knife,” threatened her and her family’s lives, and her little sister said he told Elizabeth he was taking her for hostage or for ransom. How is this a wonderfully amazing story?

I don’t have children, but I do have pets that are like children to me.  If one of them were taken for ransom, at force with a long hunting knife, I would NEVER ever call the situation wonderful or an amazing story!

If  the Smart family did not know who took her, or why someone did, then how did they know she was not already dead? How is a dead, or tortured child an amazing and wonderful story?

“whoever the abductor was, he was very smart or very lucky.”… “He entered a home with a security system on a dead-end street.” ~Tom Smart

Yes, I too find Mitchell’s luck to be pretty darn good that night, being the one night that a window was left open and the security system was off.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Source:

In plain sight: the startling truth behind the Elizabeth Smart investigation, By Tom Smart, Lee Benson

CNN transcripts

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65 Responses to Why Did Elizabeth Smart’s Uncle Call Her Kidnapping a “Wonderful and Amazing Story?”

  1. CS says:

    In reply to your comments on the Westerfield-van Dam case.

    The body dump site wasn’t that remote: it was diagonally opposite a popular golf course, there was a housing development opposite that golf course, there was a school a mile in the opposite direction, and a casino about another mile further away. That was a busy road. And the positioning of the body suggests it might have been posed, with that oak tree acting as a headstone and its canopy substituting for the canopy over Danielle’s bed.

    Pornography had been downloaded on Westerfield’s computer, but it is questionable if it was child pornography: some people in law enforcement said it wasn’t. The bestiality was found on his teenage son’s computer. The videos were just clips, so very short; media reports differed widely as to the age of the girl; and the prosecutor, in his opening statement, admitted it might just have been an adult dressed to look young; so we can confidently conclude that she wasn’t “very young”. Danielle’s handprint wasn’t on the headboard of the motor home bed, it was on a cabinet above the side of the bed, and the window was next to that cabinet. A child exploring that interesting vehicle might well have been in that area, maybe to jump on the bed or to look out the window.

    There was no evidence that Westerfield was ever in the van Dam home, nor was there any evidence that Danielle had been raped, nor any evidence that there had been an assault anywhere in his environment.

    You can read about all this in the book “Rush to Judgement”.

    • Alethea says:

      Even if all true, what you have written is hardly evidence that he is innocent.

      Weren’t two small stains of her blood discovered on his clothing and in his motor home?

      And I remember when they played the clip from that pornographic movie in the courtroom, taken from Westerfield’s computer, where an underage girl was being raped by a man while another man restrained her. I remember the courtroom reaction being described by attorneys and reporters. It was pretty horrible.

      I also remember the testimony of his niece who he violated while she was sleeping. One might say that a man sneaking into his teenage niece’s sleeping area and sticking his fingers in her mouth are not a “violation,” I say it is! It is a disgusting violation that was perverted.

      Even if he deserves another trial, he is not a completely an innocent man.

      • CS says:

        Thank you for your response.

        The remoteness or otherwise of the body dump site might not be evidence of Westerfield’s innocence, but I like accuracy – I nearly also pointed out that, if Westerfield was the perpetrator, then the murder was within just two-and-a-quarter days, rather than a “few days”. Based on the entomology evidence, and the February 15 phone call stating that she was still alive, and the previous search or searches of the dump site area which failed to find her, she only died two weeks after she was abducted.

        But that specific location makes it more likely that the perpetrator was a golfer or a biker (and Westerfield was neither). And the positioning of the body suggests it was placed there by someone who loved her, so her death may have been an accident which was covered up.

        This might not be proof of his innocence, but it does raise doubts as to his guilt.

        Similarly, as some of the evidence was on his son’s computer, this calls into question the ownership of the other images as well. And the true location of Danielle’s handprint weakens the strengthen of that evidence too.

        The jury wasn’t allowed to hear expert testimony that the pornography wasn’t child pornography: for the trial to be fair, they should have been. In view of the evidence I produced, your reply shouldn’t have referred to an “underage girl”, but rather to a “possibly underage girl”. Your phrase “the clip from that pornographic movie” could be taken to mean that he had the entire movie, of which only a clip was played in court. In fact, he only had clips. If this is used as motive for kidnapping and murder, then quantity is relevant. And you must also consider his explanation: because of a controversy at that time, he had done research to determine what was available for free.

        The defense expert said that some of what is on the internet is fake, so that rape scene might just have been over-age actors who were paid for their performance. The fact that the police made little or no attempt to trace and prosecute the supposed perpetrators of a vicious crime against a child, suggests that they didn’t seriously believe it was real.

        But you are right that there was a strong reaction, both inside and outside the courtroom, to that video clip. And that, I’m sure, was the prosecution’s intention: with the dearth of actual evidence of guilt in this circumstantial case, they needed that to win.

        Just imagine that someone you know is murdered. Because you know them you become one of the suspects, the police search your house, find your DVD movie collection which includes some murder scenes (as is too common these days), and play those scenes in court at your murder trial, and the jury is so horrified that they find you guilty, even though you weren’t.

        One small stain of Danielle’s blood was found on his motor home jacket, and one drop of her blood on his motor home carpet. But they were neighbors, his motor home was often parked in the neighborhood streets very close to her house, and it was a safe neighborhood so that vehicle wasn’t always locked: sometimes the door was even open. So Danielle could easily have innocently been in it at some prior time, perhaps exploring it out of curiosity, and left behind all that small quantity of evidence. DNA doesn’t date evidence.

        And there’s another possibility. That jacket was handed in to the dry-cleaners, and they did not see that stain. So was it there then? And the blood drop wasn’t photographed or measured. So was it there then?

        His niece wasn’t a teenager at the time of that incident. And she was in his house, in his own daughter’s bedroom. And there was no testimony that he sneaked into that room: his niece wouldn’t have known that, as she was asleep. He heard a commotion and, being a concerned parent, went to investigate. The niece’s mother testified that it was the custom in their families for them to keep an eye on each other’s children. As to the details of that incident, you are placing a lot of trust in the memory of a long-ago incident by a sleepy child, with no supporting evidence. And there should have been physical evidence, namely damage to his fingers when she bit him, so this wasn’t a case of just “he said, she said”. Even if her memory is correct, there’s a big difference between sticking your fingers in someone’s mouth – which dentists do all the time – and kidnapping, rape and murder.

        The above facts might not be sufficient to prove him innocent of those crimes. But the same can’t be said of my penultimate paragraph, particularly that there was no evidence he had ever been in her home. This profusely sweating man supposedly spent over an hour in that house, yet the police and their dogs could find no evidence of him there. And the house had an alarm system, which was set, and a dog, and for about half that hour there were six adults there, all awake, as well as Danielle’s two brothers. That beggars belief.

  2. Alethea says:

    Are you a lesbian Car Lady? I am wondering because maybe this is why you refuse to believe that the majority of the time, same/sex child sexual abuse brings about more devastating affects to the victim. Just wondering.

    “Also, it has been men who have throughout history primarily been involved in the field of psychology, and it is their biases and opinions which have shaped this field.”

    Sorry, but this is no longer true, and feminism and strong beliefs like yours have often silenced female victims of female perpetrators.

  3. Alethea says:

    Car Lady, your ignorance has earned you a spot on my main blog page. I have removed your last comment to me and will be answering you on my main page. (to be posted later today).

  4. Alethea says:

    True Car Lady, you did say that you were not comparing physical abuse to being raped, but by bringing your own experience to the table and by saying that your mother’s violation was no worse than your father’s, you were essentially comparing.

    You brought up that many women feel more violated by their mother than their father in cases of physical abuse, but that YOU did not feel this way. Not only can you NOT use physical abuse as a comparison -even in this way- but you would probably learn that in most cases of physical abuse by both parents, the child does feel more pain from having been assaulted by the mother. This DOES NOT minimize YOUR experience.

    Of course there are always exceptions. Of course we are all different. I am not disputing this. Nor am I judging anyone who felt that their experience with same-sex child sexual abuse was not as bad as their experience with being abused by the opposite sex.

    I’m not “teaching” anyone anything. I am presenting facts that are based in research.

    “I am not sure which cases you are referring to, but I am certain that a little girl who has had her internal organs damaged because a grown man’s penis was inside of her would beg to differ with you.”

    You seem to be out to pick a fight here. I am not going to argue that the female children who are permanently damaged by rape are not affected terribly. This is not my point.

    I think that All Black saying “a zillion times more traumatic” was merely his typing out his emotional attachment to the fact. I think he could have thought it out before typing out “a zillion.” I think he was just trying to emphasize his point. I don’t think he truly meant that it was that dramatic..We all type too quickly sometimes.

    “The fact that I was not sexually abused allows me to be far more objective and unbiased in my beliefs.”

    The fact that you were not sexually abused means that you have no right to pretend to know very much about the dynamics of same-sex sexual abuse, or even opposite-sex sex abuse.

    I haven’t ASSUMED anything Car Lady. I have been researching this topic for 15 years. As I said, I am not basing myself solely on personal experience.

    I am not “judging” any one case over another. Nor am I “telling” anyone anything about their own experience!

    “Telling little girls that rape for them by a male is less traumatic than is would be for a boy would be an egregious mistake.”

    I don’t think he [All Black] has done this, nor have I.

    • Alethea says:

      I found that research:

      In a study on 704 children, suspected to have been sexually abused, and who were seen at a hospital from January 1992 to April 2000, it was found that seventy-four percent of the genital and anal exams were normal in seventy-nine percent of the children. Girls made up seventy-five percent of the alleged victims and ninety-two percent of the suspected perpetrators were male. 1

      In a study spanning five years, 2,384 children who had been assessed for possible sexual abuse, had a normal medical exam in 96.3% of the cases. The children had been referred for evaluation because they told someone they were being sexually abused, displayed behavior indicative of abuse, had been in an abusive environment, or because of a physical condition that pointed to abuse. Of the children who reported that abuse had taken place, 95.6% of the exams were normal. Out of those who had been referred for behavioral issues, 99.8% had normal exams, and ninety-two percent had benign exams if they were referred for a medical reason. The vast majority of the children in the study reported that they had been penetrated rectally or vaginally.

      The small remaining percentage had sexually transmitted diseases, or obvious damage had been done to their genitals. Others had varying medical conditions that strongly signified sexual abuse. The researchers concluded that abnormal medical exams in children, who are suspected of having been sexually abused, only occurs about four percent of the time. 2

      Copyright 2008 Alethea Marina Nova

      The above material is from one of my soon to be published manuscripts. All rights reserved. No part of this comment may be reproduced or transmitted in any form, or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any information storage and retrieval system, without written permission from the author.

      References:

      1.Sexual abuse: Experience in a child sexual abuse unit, Comas Masmitja L, Petitbo Rafat M, Ibanez Fanes M, Bassets Marill J, Ruiz Espana A, Pou Fernandez J An Esp Pediatr 2001 Mar; 54(3):243-250

      2. Children referred for possible sexual abuse: Medical findings in 2384 children. Heger A, Ticson L, Velasquez O, Bernier R Child Abuse Negl 2002 Jun; 26(6-7):645-59

    • car lady says:

      Alethea:

      “Of course there are always exceptions. Of course we are all different. I am not disputing this. Nor am I judging anyone who felt that their experience with same-sex child sexual abuse was not as bad as their experience with being abused by the opposite sex.”
      I do not think that you are judging anyone, and I in no way meant to imply this. I was applying this thought to individuals who may get this message from people like All Black and then pass judgment on little girls who have been abused, or maybe not even take their own child’s rape seriously because of the gender- and there are people ignorant enough to do this.

      “I am not sure which cases you are referring to, but I am certain that a little girl who has had her internal organs damaged because a grown man’s penis was inside of her would beg to differ with you.” “You seem to be out to pick a fight here.”
      I am certainly not trying to “pick a fight.” I don’t fight. I am a pacifist. I do, however speak my mind, and will always tenaciously defend something that I believe in. I get the sense from reading your posts that you are this way too. This is not my reason for stating this at all. I just wanted to point out how there are individuals who could be hurt by reading or hearing a thoughtless remark, such as that rape for boys is more traumatic than for girls. I firmly believe in the statement I made. I did not make it to offend you AT ALL. I just wanted to point out how a little girl could possibly feel who has been raped and damaged by a man.
      “I think that All Black saying “a zillion times more traumatic” was merely his typing out his emotional attachment to the fact. I think he could have thought it out before typing out “a zillion.” I think he was just trying to emphasize his point. I don’t think he truly meant that it was that dramatic. We all type too quickly sometimes.”
      You cannot defend All Black. He can only defend himself, and has as of yet failed to do so. You cannot presume what prompted All Black to say what he did. There is no excuse for his having made this statement, ESPECIALLY if he is a trained psychologist. He seems to me to be the type of person who is pretty convinced of his beliefs. He stated TWO different times that rape for a boy is more traumatic than for a girl. I do not believe that this had anything to do with his typing speed- although that’s a good one.
      “The fact that you were not sexually abused means that you have no right to pretend to know very much about the dynamics of same-sex sexual abuse, or even opposite-sex sex abuse.”

      I do not “pretend” to know anything. I never made ANY statements about same-sex child abuse. Because you WERE assaulted does not make you an expert either. Even educated psychologist and psychiatrist disagree on many things. Psychology is a pseudo-science. You know what YOUR experience has been. Each victim speaks for themselves, and all cases are different. This is fact, and I do not need to have been raped to know this. And I am NOT trying to pick a fight by saying this. I am just freely stating how I feel, as you have.
      I am not “judging” any one case over another. Nor am I “telling” anyone anything about their own experience!
      If one publicly makes a statement that the rape of a boy is worse than a girl, then this would constitute telling someone about their experience.
      “Telling little girls that rape for them by a male is less traumatic than is would be for a boy would be an egregious mistake.”
      “I don’t think he [All Black] has done this, nor have I.”

      If a trained psychologist feels that rape for a boy is worse than for a girl, this message is going to be relayed at some point to others who may be unable to think for themselves, and who may do something ignorant and possibly detrimental to a female, because of believing this misinformation. This kind of reminds me of why I have a problem with ES for the false messages she has sent out the public. Hey, maybe she was raped to the extreme and not traumatized, but that is her story – not another victims.

      • Alethea says:

        Car Lady,

        Male/male rape is very often more traumatic and emotionally and psychologically devastating than male/female rape. This is a fact. Some cases of female rape are more devastating. But research cases show a stronger degree of betrayal, shame, distress, confusion, and more psychosomatic symptoms and anti-social problems among those raped by a person of the same sex.

        If someone is “hurt” by knowing this fact, then they need to do some soul-searching and learn how to not react to facts.

        You have not offended me. I don’t get offended. You just seem to have an overly strong opinion on this, and did not seem to want to hear research-based facts. Your anger seemed to over-ride your ability to truly understand what I was saying, and what All Black was trying to convey (although poorly).

        “You cannot defend All Black. He can only defend himself, and has as of yet failed to do so.”

        I made no attempt to defend him. I only applied common sense to what he wrote. I have used overly-dramatic words many times by mistake and I truly think that’s what he did. I do not think for one second that he actually thinks it is a “zillion” times worse, or that every case is worse. If so, he is an idiot.

        >>The fact that you were not sexually abused means that you have no right to pretend to know very much about the dynamics of same-sex sexual abuse, or even opposite-sex sex abuse.>>

        My experience does not make me an expert, but it does give me more wisdom about child sexual abuse than you. My research also provides me with more experience than you.

        Psychology is not a science, but there are certain aspects about child sexual abuse that are factual.

        >>I am not “judging” any one case over another. Nor am I “telling” anyone anything about their own experience!>>

        “If one publicly makes a statement that the rape of a boy is worse than a girl, then this would constitute telling someone about their experience.”

        Uh, no, it isn’t.

        I cannot, nor have I, told any one person that their experience was not as bad as someone else’s. You are personalizing this and your anger seems extreme. In my opinion, you are over-reacting, and you may want to look at why you are doing so.

        “If a trained psychologist feels that rape for a boy is worse than for a girl, this message is going to be relayed at some point to others who may be unable to think for themselves, and who may do something ignorant and possibly detrimental to a female, because of believing this misinformation.”

        If he is truly a psychologist, and if he tells clients this, then that is on his conscience. We have no way of knowing unless he answers to this. If someone reads his words in that comment, and takes them to heart, then they ought to take some responsibility for giving so much power to what some stranger says in a flippant comment on an Internet Blog.

        The way he stated himself was wrong, but you cannot ignore the fact that in most cases, same-sex child sexual abuse is more detrimental in countless ways.

        • car lady says:

          “Male/male rape is very often more traumatic and emotionally and psychologically devastating than male/female rape. This is a fact. Some cases of female rape are more devastating. But research cases show a stronger degree of betrayal, shame, distress, confusion, and more psychosomatic symptoms and anti-social problems among those raped by a person of the same sex.”

          This is not fact, rather your opinion. Shame, emotion, confusion, betrayal, distress, etc, cannot be measured. The people who do the “measuring” of these symptoms are all biased people with their own experiences that they bring to the table. And, of course, many a heterosexual man is going to assume that male/male rape is worse than anything else. People are way too complex and there are way too many variables to consider in each case. Girls and boys also at times act out differently in response to emotional events, and thus cannot be compared to one another. Also, it has been men who have throughout history primarily been involved in the field of psychology, and it is their biases and opinions which have shaped this field. Just as an illustration, some men also continue to say and to publish that males are better in math and science than females, and there is much supposed “research” which proves this. However, I can show you “research” which disproves this, (or even shows the opposite) and real life examples, as well. I am certain if I look that I can find info that would contradict your research. I have no need to do this, however, because my common sense tells me that the rape of a girl is no less extreme than the rape of a boy.

          “If one publicly makes a statement that the rape of a boy is worse than a girl, then this would constitute telling someone about their experience.”

          Yes. This is. You are publicly making a judgmental, blanket statement, and therefore telling someone that their experience and trauma level is either (or should be) more or less extreme than another’s, based on their gender. NOT OKAY.

          “I cannot, nor have I, told any one person that their experience was not as bad as someone else’s. You are personalizing this and your anger seems extreme. In my opinion, you are over-reacting, and you may want to look at why you are doing so.”

          This is funny, because I was thinking the exact same thing about you. It seems like I really hit a nerve. I am not overreacting, merely defending young girls and women. Saying that rape for a boy is worse than for a girl is minimizing the effects of male rape on girls. This is a fact.

          By the way, you may want to look more in depth at “hypnotic regressive therapy”(I think this is what you previously stated you were involved with.) I have researched this pseudoscience, and there is case after case of individuals who have been misled into believing they were raped by family members, when in the end it has come out that they were never raped at all. It was merely a figment of their imagination, or they were led by their “hypnotist” to develop these false memories. Remember, psychology is a huge money making business. I am in no way stating that your memories are false, or that someone has led you to develop an extreme obsession with sex abuse cases, but you may want to really look into this. I would hate to think that your entire life has been disrupted by something that never even happened.

  5. car lady says:

    All Black,

    I am sure Elizabeth Smart was considering herself a “wife” as she was supposedly tethered to a tree and raped.

    Also, holding a degree in psychology, which I am seriously beginning to doubt you do, does qualify you to make FALSE and ASININE statements -ever.

    • Alethea says:

      “I am sure Elizabeth Smart was considering herself a “wife” as she was supposedly tethered to a tree and raped.”

      Car Lady, this is great. I was trying to articulate this thought myself, but could not get it out of my head and onto the keyboard.

      • car lady says:

        Alethea,

        I cannot believe that that man called her a battered wife! Unthinkable!

        “Car Lady, Although I see incongruencies in the way Elizabeth Smart has behaved, I have to disagree with you on this: I was shy and withdrawn my entire life until I began to heal from the threats of death by my father. Once I began to heal, I slowly started to speak my mind, be more outgoing, and much less shy. But it took years of therapy to undo the damage that my father (and mother) caused. Wiping away the subconscious terror from death threats cannot be done in one or two days, or even in seven or ten. And certainly not by just talking to one’s parents or by horseback riding.”

        I should have worded my response differently. What I basically wanted to say is that All Black cannot say that Elizabeth Smart’s more outgoing nature as an adult PROVES that she went through some type of “healing process.” I feel this way because of the specifics in this case, which we are all aware of and have been discussing. I do, however, feel that it is common for many young people to be less outspoken as youths than they are as adults. If ES was never traumatized, then this applies to her. I myself was unbelievably shy as a youth. I could not even order my own food at a restaurant as a teenager. As an adult, I have no problem speaking my mind. I credit this simply to growing older. I do understand what you are saying in regard to yourself, however, but your case and Elizabeth’s are completely different. You were traumatized; she claims she was not. If one experiences a trauma, and they become shy and withdrawn from the trauma, but they begin to deal with and work through the trauma as they grow older, I do feel that their confidence level will increase, and they may become more outspoken, but not all abuse survivors are shy and withdrawn from the abuse, and not all shy adolescents have been abused.
        “I may not be qualified in any professional training, but I have experienced child sexual abuse by both sexes. The female family member who sexually abused me did infinitely more damage than my father did. Physically speaking, male rape of a female child might be worse, but the body heals fairly quickly. And remember that when a boy or teen is raped by a man, he also suffers great physical pain, as the anus was not intended for a penis to penetrate it, so the anus is probably more painful phsycially for a boy than vaginal rape for a girl.”

        I do believe you that you found the abuse you suffered by a female to be worse than a male; however, I feel that all cases and victims are unique. I myself experienced physical abuse by both of my parents. I was held down by both of them, beaten, physically violated to an extreme degree. While I am by no means comparing this to being raped, I have to say that I found the physical violation that I experienced, by both of my parents, to be equally traumatic. I don’t feel that my mother’s violation was any worse than my father’s or vice versa. In my nightmares, they are BOTH standing over me. This was my experience with physical abuse from both sexes. A violation is a violation, whether it is a male or female, and I think that you can only judge each case on how traumatic it was for the individual experiencing it, and this knowledge can come only from the victim him or herself – as you stated how you have been affected by sexual abuse, and I have stated how I have been affected by physical abuse. I have heard of cases of girls who were raped so brutally that they can never have children, as their internal organs have been damaged. I don’t feel that the vagina of a girl who is raped would necessarily heal pretty quickly, or more quickly than a boy; rather, once again, I feel that each case is different and has a different set of circumstances. Also, many girls who are raped are also sodomized, raped with objects, and have all kinds of other perverted things done to them. The perverts usually do not restrict their acts to vaginal rape alone.

        I am very supportive of women’s and girl’s rights, and am concerned about women’s and girl’s issues. I am in no way implying that you are not. All Black’s comment bothers me so highly because I do not think a blanket statement can be made that rape for a boy is a “zillion times” more traumatic than the rape of a girl – especially when this comment is being made by a man who has never experienced any trauma in his life, and, in my opinion, is therefore not even qualified to comment on the subject. In my opinion, this statement is extremely dangerous, because I feel it is watering down the reality of the seriousness of sex crimes against women and girls. I can just see All Black counseling a young girl who has been raped, “Well, it could have been worse. You could have been a boy.” This truly disturbs and outrages me.

        It also sickens me how young girls are being sexualized in our society to such an extreme degree, and it bothers me that they could possibly get the message from people like All Black that if they ever get raped it won’t be as bad for them as it is for a boy. Girls are being hyper-sexualized almost from the time they are infants anymore. Have you been to a toy store lately and seen some of the dolls marketed to young girls? It is absolutely appalling. They are being given the impression by our society (unfortunately even by their own parents in some cases) that they are sexual objects, and then the bastards will have the nerve to tell them that rape for them is not as bad as it would be if they were male! This is why I perceive these types of statements to be so dangerous.

        By the way, did you see the mother who put a cone-bra, Madonna-inspired outfit on her two year old daughter, and then made her strut on stage in a beauty pageant? It is absolutely sickening and heartbreaking. I think she should be charged with child pornography. If you haven’t seen it, here’s a link.

        [I removed this link so that I could post it to my main page: https://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/ or here is the permanent link: https://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/child-beauty-pageants-legalized-child-sexual-abuse/

        I do look forward to reading your new article.

        • Alethea says:

          Hi Car Lady,

          Of course all cases and victims are unique. I was speaking in terms of majority. The symptoms and psychological damage in same-sex sexual abuse is predominately worse than opposite-sex child sex abuse.

          I am so very sorry for what you experienced in your home. I personally believe that the physical abuse of children can damage a child severely.

          The physical abuse by both of your parents is of course equally traumatic, but you are not allowing for the sexual aspect to come into your argument.

          When the sexual component is a part of child abuse, it adds dynamics that go beyond physical abuse.

          You may not feel that your mother’s violation was any worse, but if you add serious sexual abuse into a child’s psyche, it becomes far worse in general, and ten times worse for same-sex abuse.

          I’m sorry for what you endured, but it cannot be measured against sexual abuse. Physical abuse is a very *different* violation.

          “I don’t feel that the vagina of a girl who is raped would necessarily heal pretty quickly, or more quickly than a boy.”

          Evidence shows that it does, and sometimes there is no physical sign of sexual abuse, even when there was penetration of very young children.

          “I am very supportive of women’s and girl’s rights, and am concerned about women’s and girl’s issues.”

          That’s fine, but just don’t let it cloud your belief system, or make you bias.

          “In my opinion, [All Black’s] statement is extremely dangerous, because I feel it is watering down the reality of the seriousness of sex crimes against women and girls.”

          I feel that your view might be watering down the seriousness of male/male child rape and female/female child sexual abuse.

          I understand your anger about female children being made into sex objects and men telling women that rape for them is not as bad as it would be if they were male, but I did not get that from All Black’s statement.

          • car lady says:

            Alethea:

            “I’m sorry for what you endured, but it cannot be measured against sexual abuse. Physical abuse is a very *different* violation.”

            I never said that it could be. To the contrary, I stated the opposite, that I was by no means comparing physical abuse to “being raped.” My purpose in talking about my abuse was to make the point that we all have our own unique and individual reactions to abuse in general. For instance, I have read that a female being PHYSICALLY abused by her mother would be far more traumatic to her than if her father abused her because:

            a. The mother is supposed to be the “nurturer,” and this makes her abuse much more shocking and severe to the child who is looking to her as such.
            b. The mother has a stronger influence on her daughter than the father does – since they are the same sex.

            I am living testimony that this is NOT TRUE, and I completely disagree with these findings. There are, however, females who agree with these statements, and this has been THEIR experience. We are all different. I would never judge them for how they feel, but I would have a problem with them if they taught other women and girls that this is a “truth” for all girls who have been abused by their mothers and fathers.

            “Evidence shows that it does, and sometimes there is no physical sign of sexual abuse, even when there was penetration of very young children.”

            I am not sure which cases you are referring to, but I am certain that a little girl who has had her internal organs damaged because a grown man’s penis was inside of her would beg to differ with you. Also, there are many cases of girls whose vaginas are obviously VERY damaged from penile penetration, child molesters and/or rapists are not exactly known for being gentle with their victims. Each case of child abuse is different, and they all range in degrees of severity, whether the victim is a girl or a boy. Therefore, it is appalling, sexist, dangerous an irresponsible for a psychologist to make the statement that the rape of a boy is “a zillion times more traumatic” than the rape of a girl.

            “That’s fine, but just don’t let it cloud your belief system, or make you bias.”

            The fact that I was not sexually abused allows me to be far more objective and unbiased in my beliefs. It is you, I fear, who are allowing you belief system to become clouded and biased by assuming most victims feel as you do, based on YOUR experiences. No one on this earth is in any position to say that one person’s rape and violation was any more or less traumatic than another simply based on gender.

            “I feel that your view might be watering down the seriousness of male/male child rape and female/female child sexual abuse.”

            I am sorry you feel this way. I am not sure where I made the statement or implied that I do not feel that same-sex abuse is serious. It is also rape, and is warped and perverted. My view takes no position on any particular case, whether two males were involved or two females were involved. Like I said before, all rape is traumatic. However, I am not to judge whether Johnny’s rape by his priest was any more or less traumatic than Annie’s rape by her male teacher. I certainly would never presume to tell Annie that her rape was less traumatic than Johnny’s, simple because she is a girl. This would discriminatory and minimizing the effects that the abuse may have had on Annie. I would also never presume to tell someone that their abuse by someone of the same sex is any more or less traumatic than it would be if they had been assaulted by someone of the opposite sex.

            “I understand your anger about female children being made into sex objects and men telling women that rape for them is not as bad as it would be if they were male, but I did not get that from All Black’s statement.”

            All Black may not have stated anything about little girls being sex objects; however, it is this type of thinking that perpetuates the minimization of sex crimes against them. Telling little girls that rape for them by a male is less traumatic than is would be for a boy would be an egregious mistake. It is presumptive, sexist and sends the WRONG message. I certainly would never teach my daughter, or any young girl for that matter, that if she is ever raped it will be less traumatic for her than if she were a boy.

            • Alethea says:

              Car Lady,

              I have answered this at the top of the page. I am also going to look for that research about physical damage.

      • car lady says:

        Alethea,

        I forgot to state a point I wanted to make in my last post. I do not agree that rape is more physically painful for a boy. While the anus was not designed for a penis to penetrate it, a little girls’ vagina is not prepared for a man’s penis to penetrate it. Even most women who are sexually fully functional, experience some pain upon first-time intercourse. I can’t imagine a little girl who is not fully developed in that area having anything thrust in there. I had pain using tampons as a virgin. I cannot imagine the pain of being violently raped at a prepubescent age, or even later. I again feel that each case is unique, but I would think that the pain would be excruciating whether anal or vaginal penetration took place.

        • Alethea says:

          True Car Lady. If I said the anal pain of a boy child would be worse than the vaginal pain for a girl child, then I should have said that they are equally painful.

    • All_black says:

      you completely missed the point!

  6. Alethea says:

    Car Lady >>Are you saying that rape is more traumatic for a straight man than for a woman?>>

    All Black: “yeah, a ‘zillion’ times more traumatic!”

    A.B, In case you missed it, I agree with you here.

    Car Lady: >>If you are indeed a psychologist, PLEASE do not tell the family or the survivor of abuse that the family is going to “work miracles” for them.>>

    All Black: “Family support is the first thing we look at because it’s proven to minimize recivity rates and proven to be the best starting point for the healing process.”

    The problem A.B, is that Elizabeth and her family have not, to my knowledge, spoken about the fact that she has a unique situation in that she has supportive family. The majority of children and teens who are sexually abused/raped/threatened, come from very dysfunctional families, and most often, it is a member of that family who has sexually abused the child. There is also a high rate of family members who support the perpetrators, not the child.

    Elizabeth’s advice cannot morally be given to most survivors of trauma. She either does not see that, or does not know that. She ought to educate herself on that fact and stop giving out silly cliche’s to other victims.

    That said; if Elizabeth had experienced her quick recovery in about a year or so, and if it included some kind of subconscious work, then I would agree that her family had a huge impact. However, she and her family have maintained that she was fine from almost the moment of rescue.

    • Lacee says:

      In terms of Elizabeth & her parents saying she was fine, I call that denial.

    • Alethea says:

      Hi Car Lady. I guess I am going to shock you too, because I agree with All Black about male/male rape, at least when it comes to male children.

      I may not be qualified in any professional training, but I have experienced child sexual abuse by both sexes. The female family member who sexually abused me did infinitely more damage than my father did. Physically speaking, male rape of a female child might be worse, but the body heals fairly quickly. And remember that when a boy or teen is raped by a man, he also suffers great physical pain, as the anus was not intended for a penis to penetrate it, so the anus is probably more painful phsycially for a boy than vaginal rape for a girl.

      Physical pain aside; the emotional and psychological aspect is DEVASTATING for victims of same/sex sexual abuse. And, even if a woman does not penetrate a female child with any object, female/female child sexual abuse can still feel like an emotional rape to the girl child.

      As I stated before, I am working on an article on this very topic. I will post it soon.

      “THIS CASE [Elizabeth Smart] IS DOING AN ENORMOUS DISSERVICE TO WOMEN AND YOUNG GIRLS BY WATERING DOWN THE EFFECTS OF SEXUAL ABUSE, misleading weak-minded individuals into believing that the effects of rape on women and girls aren’t so bad.”

      This is very true.

      “YOU are a PRIME example of one who has been brainwashed into believing such garbage. How truly sad. I Pray to god that you NEVER treat a young girl or women who is suffering from the horrible effects of rape or molestation.”

      If All Black does get a case, I hope to God that he does not hand the patient an Elizabeth Smart research paper and say, ‘see, you can do what she did.’ I hope that A.B will not even mention E. Smart because her case is questionable, and cannot be applied to most cases of child sexual abuse, or even to cases of child abduction that include rape, threats and torture. Unlike Elizabeth, most children who are raped about 1,000 times over a nine month period, go through a series of life-altering events that affect their emotions, physical body, psychological state, their social activities, and it often affects their spirituality.

      That is, unless they completely disassociate from their trauma, and then it comes back to haunt them years later.

      • All_black says:

        “If All Black does get a case, I hope to God that he does not hand the patient an Elizabeth Smart research paper and say, ‘see, you can do what she did.’ I”

        Would be both unethical and unwise. We look at principals, techniques, research and not just copying what others have experienced. No two cases are exactly the same so it would also be useless to do that.

        “Unlike Elizabeth, most children who are raped about 1,000 times over a nine month period, go through a series of life-altering events that affect their emotions, physical body, psychological state, their social activities, and it often affects their spirituality. ”

        This comment of yours is what motivated me to comment again. I didn’t want to continue this discussion but the problem is that, true, what you write is the norm in almost all cases. Point is that there ARE other options and there CAN be other results. But if one follows your general beliefs it literally destroys hope for the future. You see, whether its recovery through hypnosis or psychotherapy or by talking to your parents and your ministers, RECOVERY is possible, recovery is the issue, and there isn’t a one only way as you keep insisting on. You can certainly promote your system as a proven one and the one that worked for you. But other people may end up recovering by spending time at the beach looking out across the ocean!! There isn’t a set way or factual way to recover from major trauma because we are all different, we all have our own triggers and biases and background etc. and a good counselor will find them and use it to help the person along the road of recovery. Thinking that someone is lying because they recovered using other techniques (as is the Smart case) is simply a damaging fallacy and only rubs salt into their wounds. Imagine what this women would think when she reads your words? if she ever does. Confusion (why doesn’t she believe me?) frustration (why doesn’t she believe me?) and anger (why doesn’t she believe me????) all negative feelings generated because you seem to only want to bring her down. I think that now, although we keep a general interest in the case and her progress for the sake of other cases and research, we really need to ease off with the accusations and mostly try to leave her alone to get on with her life. If she shows up in some interview somewhere, just try to see the reason for doing it, radkidz or amber alerts etc (she’s never promoted perfume or clothing line).

        But there is never a good excuse to criticize a recovering victim , especially one recovering from sexual violence, even if you disagree with the techniques used in that process. Telling her to go back to her mission, her harp and to shut up , does no good to anyone at all.

        • Alethea says:

          “But if one follows your general beliefs it literally destroys hope for the future.”

          You are quite ignorant. It is not “my belief” it is proven facts, statistics, cases, testimony given by countless victims of CSA.

          “But other people may end up recovering by spending time at the beach looking out across the ocean!!”

          Wow, you are a nincompoop. Try telling this to the millions who suffer. See what their response will be.

          “Imagine what this women would think when she reads your words? if she ever does.”

          If Elizabeth Smart is as strong and healed as you say, and if she truly suffered everything she did, and truly was a victim from day one, then she would read my words and blow them off as someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about. Just as I have done when people have told me that my memories are false, and that my father never raped or abused me. Strength, being healed, and being at peace with one’s self means not allowing others to affect you.

          There is always good reason to criticize, scrutinize, or question anyone who has made statements that have badly affected those trying to heal from CSA. So if I feel it is warranted, I will continue to express myself about the case.

          We have no point of contact, Goodbye.

    • All_black says:

      “Elizabeth’s advice cannot morally be given to most survivors of trauma. S”

      True, her case is unique in both facts and post event.

      “is that Elizabeth and her family have not..spoken about the fact that she has a unique situation in that she has supportive family.”

      don’t need to since its obvious to most observers.

  7. Alethea says:

    Car Lady, Although I see incongruencies in the way Elizabeth Smart has behaved, I have to disagree with you on this: I was shy and withdrawn my entire life until I began to heal from the threats of death by my father. Once I began to heal, I slowly started to speak my mind, be more outgoing, and much less shy. But it took years of therapy to undo the damage that my father (and mother) caused. Wiping away the subconscious terror from death threats cannot be done in one or two days, or even in seven or ten. And certainly not by just talking to one’s parents or by horseback riding.

    “This one positive message that she may have sent to some survivors of rape, is completely consumed by the many negative messages she sent to survivors, in ways previously mentioned by me.”

    Yes, and her reasons for speaking out matter. If she did it to cover up any lies connected to why she went with Mitchell in the first place, or lied about why she did not allow herself to be rescued, then her speaking out is self-oriented and therefore, a false sense of helping others.

    I agree with A.B. in that male/male rape is often much more devastating to the victim. And much harder to heal from than male/female rape. In addition, most often, female/female child sexual abuse is worse too.

    I am currently working on an entire article on same/sex child sexual abuse. Stay tuned….

  8. Car Lady says:

    Hello All Black,

    Are we talking about the same US justice system that found OJ Simpson NOT guilty of murder and Michael Jackson of NOT having had improper relations with children? Hmmmmm sounds like it could be a “flawed” system to me. What about the “rapists” and “murderers” who, after serving years in prison, have been cleared of their crimes by DNA evidence? I am sure that all of the “expert witnesses” were shocked after learning they convicted innocent people.

    Also, Elizabeth is the one who very publicly claimed that she spoke to her parents to recover from her trauma. Her father contradicted her claims by stating that he knew very little of what happened to her until now.

    All Black, I suggest that you go and meet some real life survivors of childhood abuse. Open your eyes, and then you will see the reality of the impact it has on people’s lives. Just “talking” about details of a “MAJOR trauma,” as you put it, to people who are not even qualified to deal with abuse, DOES NOT enable one to just “get over,” as Elizabeth stated, a “MAJOR trauma.” Besides this, Elizabeth and her parents claim that she was NOT traumatized by her ordeal. Elizabeth claims she has been “untouched” by the whole event.

    Yes, Sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…….

    If you are a lawyer, then I hope you will never have to represent me. If you have followed this case, and you were an intellectually honest person, then you would not under any circumstances be able to say that this case was cut and dry, and that there were not some things that were terribly perplexing and disturbing about the behavior of the Smart family and of Elizabeth Smart herself.

    • Alethea says:

      Car Lady says: “All Black, I suggest that you go and meet some real life survivors of childhood abuse. Open your eyes, and then you will see the reality of the impact it has on people’s lives. Just “talking” about details of a “MAJOR trauma,” as you put it, to people who are not even qualified to deal with abuse, DOES NOT enable one to just “get over,” as Elizabeth stated, a “MAJOR trauma.”

      Good post Car Lady.

      “Besides this, Elizabeth and her parents claim that she was NOT traumatized by her ordeal. Elizabeth claims she has been “untouched” by the whole event.”

      She reportedly used the word “unscarred,” but same thing. She testified to being raped three or four times a day. Multiply that times nine months, and you get anywhere between 810 to 1,080 RAPES. And she didn’t suffer any trauma and is unscarred?

      All Black claims to be in the mental health field, or has a degree of some kind in that field, not that he is an attorney.

    • All_black says:

      “eal life survivors of childhood abuse.”

      Elizabeth is NOT a case of childhood abuse but stranger abduction.

      “If you are a lawyer..”

      I’m a phychologist is both a maximum security prison, 3 days a week, and a juvenile justice remand centre 2 days a week. I know what the problems are with my profession.

      “disturbing about the behavior of the Smart family and of Elizabeth Smart herself”

      Recovery, moving on, trusting a higher being for the healing, helping others,???? is that the disturbing behaviour you are talking about? If it is I’d follow the Smart example and not your suggestions.

      • Alethea says:

        Hi All Black,

        Car Lady wrote: >real life survivors of childhood abuse.>

        All Black: “Elizabeth is NOT a case of childhood abuse but stranger abduction.”

        But she has been deemed a child by her defenders, and she says she was raped anywhere between 800 and 1,000 times, so she was technically a child abuse victim.

        I respect the fact that you are working to help those in prison. I wish that more people had compassion for prisoners, and someone needs to help them.

        However, when you apply Elizabeth Smart’s ability to simply move on from what she says she endured….apply it to trusting a higher being for the healing, then you are insulting and minimizing the souls of all the children and adult survivors in this world who suffer from the after-affects of child sexual abuse, but who believed in God at the time of their ordeal, remained faithful in God afterward, and who trust God’s hand in their life to help them heal.

        You are essentially saying that God loves Elizabeth more than them, that God has healed her but will not heal them, and that she is somehow spiritually above them.

      • Alethea says:

        And another thing A.B,

        You also mentioned helping others, in regards to E. Smart’s ability to magically heal.

        I have been a helper of others for most of my adult life, even when I was sick and dysfunctional, I did whatever I could to help others in need, in whatever way I could manage to do while suffering and being a recluse. Then, when I remembered what happened to me as a child, and began to heal from a NIGHTMARE disease that causes people to kill themselves, the first thing I did was begin to write my memoirs so that I could help others to also heal and to deal with the after-effects of child sexual abuse and trauma.

        I also went on abuse forums and began to engage in conversations with others about topics that were unpleasant and shameful –just to help others to not feel so alone. I was told by many survivors how grateful they were that I did that. I also began to try and get laws changed, and looked into how I could do public speaking. I could easily have just moved on, walked away from all that and enjoyed my new life, but I chose to instead endure the burden of my bio family and the uncomfortable subject of child sexual abuse in my daily life so that I COULD HELP OTHERS. None of that healed me.

        What has E. Smart done for others? I am truly asking, because I don’t know.

    • Alethea says:

      btw Car Lady, are you receiving email notifications that a new comment has posted at my Blog? (comments, not a new article)?

    • Lacee says:

      Just because Elizabeth said she spoke with her parents does not mean she gave them every detail. Also, she may have spoken with her mom & not her dad. There was a gag order on the Smart case. Lois & Elizabeth were witnesses for the prosecution, Ed was not. That may have had something to do with it. Also, as I said, Elizabeth & her parents may likely still be in denial.

  9. Car Lady says:

    Once again, Alethea, I agree with everything you have pointed out. I never knew Elizabeth’s uncle made these statements about the story being “wonderful and amazing” and that “everyone has issues” right after she went missing. His statements completely support the theory that this family new that Elizabeth voluntarily ran off with Mitchell. There is no other explanation as to why a close family member would make such OUTRAGEOUS statements in regard to his supposedly “abducted” niece. How would you feel if you were abducted, endured sexual assault, etc., were later rescued, and then saw your uncle making these statements about your abduction on television? I know that I would be incredibly hurt and angry. You could even be abducted and, while you are in captivity, your abductor could allow you to watch your family members on tv. People know this. It has happened before where abducted children have said that they saw their parents pleading for them on tv. Knowing Elizabeth might hear him, how could her uncle have made these statements? It is because he knew more than he was telling.

    What truly amazes me about this whole case is how so few people actually doubt Elizabeth’s story and hail her as a hero and poster child for survivors of child sexual abuse. I guess it shouldn’t surprise me, though, because the average person is so easily brain washed.

    Another problem I have with this case is that Elizabeth claims that she did not need therapy and that she was healed by “talking” to her parents. Interestingly, Ed Smart claimed, while Elizabeth was in the process of giving her recent testimony, that there were so many things that he had never heard, and that he did not realize, until now, how much she had really gone through. It sounds like Elizabeth did not engage in much “talk” with her parents about the abuse she endured after all. Are we really surprised???

    Like you, Alethea, this case will always bother me. It angers me that this family is getting away with such dishonesty. I despise the whole dysfunctional lot of them!

    • All_Black says:

      “completely support the theory that this family new that Elizabeth voluntarily ran off with Mitchell. ”

      Jesus, means the US justice system is a complete farce. 6 weeks trial, some 6 shrinks plus other expert witnesses and they got the kidnapping bit, main part of the charges, all wrong!

      Yes, sure!!!!……

      “Ed Smart claimed, while Elizabeth was in the process of giving her recent testimony, that there were so many things that he had never heard, and that he did not realize, until now, how much she had really gone through. It sounds like Elizabeth did not engage in much “talk” with her parents about the abuse she endured after all. ”

      Yeap, way to recover from major trauma. Talking endlessly to someone you don’t really know doesn’t help at all but just perpetuates the nightmare. Hopefully my profession will soon realise this so we can legally change our practices.

      • Alethea says:

        All Black, you are right, talking endlessly to someone you don’t really know doesn’t heal anyone. But neither does talking to your parents here and there, superficially. Nor does it heal a trauma survivor to ‘not allow it to define their life.’ Neither does one heal by ‘letting it go’ or by ‘moving past all that.’

        • All_black says:

          Elizabeth Smart seems to contradict your beliefs.

          • Alethea says:

            “Elizabeth Smart seems to contradict your beliefs.”

            Nothing is ever completely as it seems.

            She also contradicts research, defies common sense, and contradicts millions of cases of rape, terror, and trauma.

      • Alethea says:

        Regarding the U.S. justice system:

        Recent history has taught us that it is high profile stars like O.J, Michael Jackson, Robert Blake, Colby Bryant, and others who get off scott free.

        Elizabeth Smart was not a high profile star before her abduction, but she was made one by the media and her family.

        • All_black says:

          Seems now that no high profile person will be convicted?

          Or is it that only whenever a high profile person get off from a big charge that the courts get it wrong?

          But wait, Smart wasn’t the person charged, so wouldn’t she be like the main witness in the OJ trial -or a Mark Fuhrman??- and Mitchell would be OJ? So in this case then they got it right, right? Mitchell was found guilty as OJ should have been, right?

          • Alethea says:

            No, what I meant was that the high profile person is the one believed without question and without applying common sense. They are believed merely because of WHO they are.

            Peace.

    • Alethea says:

      Thank you Car Lady.

      “What truly amazes me about this whole case is how so few people actually doubt Elizabeth’s story and hail her as a hero and poster child for survivors of child sexual abuse. I guess it shouldn’t surprise me, though, because the average person is so easily brain washed.”

      How right you are, and much of mainstream America has been brainwashed about MANY subjects, without their knowledge.

    • Lacee says:

      Car lady, Elizabeth’s uncle was sleep-deprived when he made those inane comments. He was rambling.

  10. All_Black says:

    Tom Smart had by then gone with 5 or 6 nights no sleep and was literally ‘seeing things’. Here he was just blabbing out words that didn’t make all that much sense to anybody.

    But later he did clarify that the ‘crossing boundaries’ was about the stealing a teen girl from her bedroom. And yes, Mitchell was lucky that the window was left opened. In the other homes he attempted to break into, the Wrights and Kemps in San Diego, he didn’t get that lucky -thank God!

    But sometimes I get the feeling that you haven’t read the entire transcript of Smart’s testimony in court. It is very graphic and detailed with regards to rape and other abuse. If you had you wouldn’t imply here that the Smarts are “People who lie about rape and abuse, provide shelter for perpetrators and deny truth and a voice to real victims.” Remember that the entire family was in that courtroom listening to her testimony. It’s still available at http://breaking.sltrib.com/mitchell/

    Now I’m not suggesting that everything about this case is in the public domain. Medical information isn’t although Ed Smart did say once that there was plenty of DNA available.

    I suspect that Elizabeth probably considers herself more of a divorcee than an abuse victim but that’s my take on the case, something which is practically impossible to confirm. If she does then her recovery is more similar to a woman liberated from an abusive marriage rather than an incest or child abuse case. But again, that’s only my opinion and I don’t have any evidence to back it up.

    • Alethea says:

      Hi All Black,

      I knew you would be the first to reply 😉

      Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think it is physically possible, without the use of CIA-type torture, to stay completely awake for 5 or 6 nights. Secondly, he was “literally ‘seeing things’?” Oh come on. He was able to perform the interview and he certainly did not ramble or sound ludicrous in any other part of the interview.

      “But later he did clarify that the ‘crossing boundaries’ was about the stealing a teen girl from her bedroom.”

      Okay, but in the next breath, he said “It’s an amazing story.” So according to you, the stealing of a teen is an “amazing story”, oh, and “wonderful.”

      When I imply here that the Smarts *might be* “People who lie about rape and abuse, and who provide shelter for perpetrators and deny truth and a voice to real victims.” I am not referring to any testimony about the graphic nature of any rapes Elizabeth Smart might have endured.

      I’m also not speaking of DNA. I am referring to exactly what I wrote about in the article; Whether or not Elizabeth went willingly with Mitchell at first and if the family knew that she went willingly with a man.

      “I suspect that Elizabeth probably considers herself more of a divorcee than an abuse victim but that’s my take on the case,…”

      If she went willingly, you might very well be right. If she was truly raped four times a day, forced to watch oral sex acts, and tied to a tree for an extended length of time, then she does indeed consider herself as having been a rape victim somewhere inside herself. It is physiologically and psychologically IMPOSSIBLE for such trauma to be brushed aside in the brain of a victim.

      • All_black says:

        “I knew you would be the first to reply ;)”

        Lol!!

        It’s is possible if the stress trigger is significant enough, to stay awake for a week or so, and with methamphetamine they can last up to about 15 days. I see guys come in wacked out for a week or so and we only interview them after they have a full nights sleep. Coming into prison and thinking that you’ll be raped the first days keeps most guys awake for several days without drugs too. But the body starts to shut down after 2 days no sleep in various ways with the brain and cognitive functions the first to go. Smart was later forcible medicated with sleeping drugs by his sister, aunt of Elizabeth who’s a pediatrician, after the interviews with SLCPD and the polygraph -which by the way he failed due to the stress of not sleeping for so long. Tom Smart also had a rather bizzare interview with Bill O’Reilly and rambled through it because of his sleep deprivation, didn’t make much sense, so his wife and daughters putt him away for a few days after that one.
        (Note also that special forces guys during training go through at least one week no sleep.)

        The ‘literally seeing things’ is a symptom of cognitive shut down. People start seeing their dead grandmother or something after days no sleep. But the words ‘amazing story’ I think he ment it as saying ‘this is unbelievable’ or ‘its amazing things like this happen’ ie the context is negative. He also described the fixation of the cops on Ricci as ‘amazing’ ie amazing that they believed it was Ricci etc.

        But of all the accusations and doubts by people, the ‘she went willingly’ is probably the most malicious and incorrect one of all. But I suppose people will keep thinking that unfortunately. Can’t force people to believe the truth!!!!

        “physiologically and psychologically IMPOSSIBLE for such trauma to be brushed aside in the brain of a victim.”

        Fact that she testified extensively about the details, forced to perform oral sex too, raped, forced to walk naked around the camp, talked of Mitchell raping her but ejaculating into Wanda because Smart had started her periods etc, show that she hasn’t brushed it aside or ignores it. But she chooses to live life in a different way, seeing the glass half full always, and I only wish a lot of the guys i see each day would do the same. Victims have many options available and moving on, having a full life etc are some of those options.

        The divorcee comment I think or suspect, that its one of the ways she can look at the past and ‘move on’. She was told from day one by both family, he bishop and even the church president that she wasn’t guilty of any immorality during those nine months, just like a wife would be , so maybe….but its my speculative analysis from across the Pacific Ocean! Oh, remember that immorality or sex outside of marriage is one of the biggest sins in her church so maybe that would have also contributed to her not running off, ie thinking during those months that she was “in trouble” for having sex with this guy but again that’s my speculations, not fact.

        • Car Lady says:

          Hello All Black,

          “Elizabeth is NOT a case of childhood abuse but stranger abduction. “

          I stand corrected. Elizabeth is not the case of “childhood abuse;” rather, she is the case of a young adult who most likely was not even abducted, but who went willingly with a man who was far from a “stranger” to the family. Mitchell spent time with this family. To what degree he interacted with Elizabeth no one knows.
          “I’m a phychologist is both a maximum security prison, 3 days a week, and a juvenile justice remand centre 2 days a week.”

          I just presumed from your comments that you were possibly a lawyer. The fact that you have a degree in Psychology makes the fact that you are so blind to the bizarre aspects of this case all the more disturbing.

          “Recovery, moving on, trusting a higher being for the healing, helping others,????”
          I agree with this statement. TRUE survivors of abuse NEED to “recover, move on, and trust a higher being.” Having stated this, recovery is a PROCESS. It is not something that miraculously happens in ONE DAY. You, being a psychologist, are sure to know this. If you did not learn this in Psych 101, then you should take your degree back to BIG LOTS, and start over.
          The PROBLEM with the Smart case is that both Elizabeth and her parents have claimed that Elizabeth never needed to recover. She was just fine from the day she arrived back home. She was so fine that she was able to return, WITHOUT FEAR, to the very bed that she had supposedly been taken from at knife point. Elizabeth a victim of “MAJOR trauma” I DO NOT THINK SO. What part of this do you NOT understand?
          You stated to Alethea that Elizabeth contradicts her beliefs, that one cannot simply move past a trauma by talking superficially to their parents. Elizabeth’s behavior does not contradict Alethea’s statements; rather, they contradict case after documented case of the HELL that TRUE survivors of abuse endure, usually for many years, if not throughout their life time, after the abuse occurs.

          In regard to Elizabeth Smart “helping others,” Elizabeth Smart has done nothing worthwhile to help any survivors of abuse. She and her family are a hindrance to survivors of abuse, not a help. Elizabeth Smart and her family have sent out the message that survivors of abuse should just “move on.” They have also made it seem as though professional intervention is unnecessary, and that you can endure MAJOR trauma, and just get over it, without having to endure any suffering or side effects. This is not true, and it is not okay to be sending this message to the public, specifically to other young women who, when faced with TRUE abuse, may end up feel badly about themselves because they cannot miraculously get over it like Elizabeth supposedly did. Elizabeth’s message waters down sex crimes and makes it seems like they are not a big deal. What an incredible disservice to women everywhere. OUTRAGEOUS. All Black, are you a survivor of abuse? If you were, then you would see Elizabeth in a much different light, and you would certainly not see her as being an inspiration to individuals who have been abused. Unfortunately, you intellectual reasoning has been clouded by a pretty face and a fairy tale story.

          • All_black says:

            “To what degree he interacted with Elizabeth no one knows.”

            We do know. It’s part of the public record. Mitchell saw Elizabeth for maybe 1 or 2 min downtown when Lois offered him work. Then saw her for maybe 5min at the house when both girls were playing the harp. That was it. Based on that he decided to go back and kidnap Elizabeth.

            “so blind to the bizarre aspects of this case all the more disturbing”

            I would say that its you guys who aren’t seeing very well here. Also this is reaching levels of ‘moon landing never happened’ type of conspiracy theory!

            “I agree with this statement. TRUE survivors of abuse NEED to “recover, move on, and trust a higher being.” Having stated this, recovery is a PROCESS. ”

            You contradict yourself. This happened back in 2002 and 3 months for 2003. The girl was very shy and withdrawn in those first media appearances but has since grown into a confident and poised young woman. She has evidently being through a ‘process’ but you claimed before that she hasn’t being through any help or process of recovery.

            “The PROBLEM with the Smart case is that both Elizabeth and her parents have claimed that Elizabeth never needed to recover.”

            Again factually incorrect. Her mother gave an interview to Dateline which was aired Dec 17 and is still available online, and there Lois says that the time that has past has allowed Elizabeth to heal, and to recover and be ready to testify. You should watch that interview yourself.

            “Elizabeth’s message waters down sex crimes and makes it seems like they are not a big deal. What an incredible disservice to women everywhere. OUTRAGEOUS”

            Rubbish! she had nothing to gain by testifying in such detail, in the full glare of the media, in the most conservative state in the US She was willing to testify to put Mitchell away; she could’ve taken the easy way out and just let Mitchell rot in a Psych Hospital but pushed to have him prosecuted. If anything, she has helped rape victims:

            Re: “Elizabeth Smart’s courage in trial helps other rape victims, advocates say” [http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/living/2013673267_smart14.html?syndication=rss]

            “All Black, are you a survivor of abuse? ”

            No. However I do work with rape victims, that’s male rape victims who mostly aren’t gay so its a zillion times more traumatic for them. I know what I’m talking about here. I can tell you that a strong, loving family that supports you and loves you unconditionally does work miracles, miracles you can’t get from any therapy alone.

            “you intellectual reasoning has been clouded by a pretty face and a fairy tale story.”

            I don’t find her attractive. She’s too teen looking and too moon faced. I prefer the Katy Perry types if you must know. But the story is uplifting and does give hope to other. the parents of Shawn Hornbeck have said that their hopes increased when elizabeth returned -and thankfully they got their miracle too! Many others are still hoping their turn will come too.

            “ps “Notify me of follow-up comments via email” is still not working”

          • Lacee says:

            Mitchell WAS a stranger to the family. He only worked at the Smart house for 3 hours ONE day in November 2001. & he’d stalked other girls previously trying to find out where they lived. He’s a sexual predator pure & simple.

          • Alethea says:

            “She and her family are a hindrance to survivors of abuse, not a help. Elizabeth Smart and her family have sent out the message that survivors of abuse should just “move on.” They have also made it seem as though professional intervention is unnecessary, and that you can endure MAJOR trauma, and just get over it, without having to endure any suffering or side effects.”

            So true Car Lady. She has done nothing, to my knowledge, to educate herself on the serious effects of rape, terror, and trauma. Nor has she said that her case of healing is unique, or how exactly she healed. Nor has she said, to my knowledge, that many others suffer greatly. All I saw was a smugness in her interview with Oprah.

            All she has done is caused simple-minded, apple pie minded people like All Black to say, “see, Elizabeth Smart is fine, why aren’t you?”

            “..and it is not okay to be sending this message to the public, specifically to other young women who, when faced with TRUE abuse, may end up feel badly about themselves because they cannot miraculously get over it like Elizabeth supposedly did.”

            Right on. This is my biggest problem with her and her family.

            “Elizabeth’s message waters down sex crimes and makes it seems like they are not a big deal.”

            Right on again!

            “Unfortunately, your intellectual reasoning has been clouded by a pretty face and a fairy tale story.”

            Yes, yes, yes. I think so too. All Black, what exactly IS your interest in this case anyway? Why ARE YOU so intrigued by Elizabeth Smart?

            • car lady says:

              Hi Alethea,

              All black is very simple minded. He is like most people looking for a feel-good story. I was wondering myself why he is so obsessed with the ES case – particularly why he reads your articles when he is so opposed to what you say. Maybe, if he really does have a degree in psychology, this case bothers him on a subconscious level, because deep down he knows from his education that ES behavior is not appropriate for a survivor of abuse, and that she really could not have miraculously been healed. Perhaps this is why he reads your articles. There has to be a reason for his obsession.

              It amazes me how many people there are who are educated, but who lack the ability to reason.

              I also find it VERY bizarre that ES was sharing a bed with her nine year old sister. This is absolutely bizarre – completely abnormal. I do not know of ANY teenager who would not have had a problem with sharing their bed with their younger sibling, even if they were very close to their sibling and loved them dearly. Maybe ES was having to share a bed with her as a punishment, or maybe her younger sister was supposed to be keeping an eye on her (like you stated), because the parents knew Elizabeth might be up to something. With as large as their house was, I don’t buy that they were sharing the bed because they were such close sisters- maybe if they had been closer in age at the time, but 14 and 9 –come on!

              • Alethea says:

                Car Lady,

                I don’t normally like to presume to know what goes on in the subconscious of another person. I have learned through experience that we can only truly know why we do things by going into our subconscious mind via hypnoanalysis. However, there is a reason that A.B returns to post here and other places in defense of E. Smart, and it is most likely a subconscious drive, as the SC rules most of our lives. (most people don’t want to know, or admit that because they like to feel in control).

                “It amazes me how many people there are who are educated, but who lack the ability to reason.”

                This is because the word “intelligence” derives from ‘in – tendo’ meaning, ‘direction from within’ not from without.’

                Book knowledge is relative to the information and intelligence of the person who wrote the book. And those who read the books, or listen to the professors, are limited by their own intelligence (inner wisdom).

                Book knowledge and degrees do not equal intelligence.

            • All_black says:

              “All Black, what exactly IS your interest in this case anyway? Why ARE YOU so intrigued by Elizabeth Smart?”

              Its related to what I see often at work, both the rapist crazies like Mitchell and victims of rape (all male) some of whom (not all ) recover just as quickly as smart seems to have. However I’ve never actually started a blog or written a blog entry on Miss Smart, as you have.

              ““see, Elizabeth Smart is fine, why aren’t you?”””

              I never actually said that. You are distorting my words.

              “All she has done is caused simple-minded, apple pie minded people like All Black to say..”

              Thanks for the insult. You’ve just lost me.

              • Alethea says:

                All Black, you say your interest in the Smart case is related to what you witness in your work:

                First off, to call rapists or Mitchell “crazies” is factually incorrect. Most rapists (and Mitchell) are not “crazy” in the legal sense. It is not a helpful term to use, as it labels them as someone deranged and incurable. This is untrue. And it allows the so-called “good” people to excuse themselves of their own psychological abnormalities.

                If you truly see men who have been raped by men, heal that quickly, then you see what you want to see, and have no true understanding of the mind or disease of the mind. Any man who claims to be fine shortly after being raped by another man is in a state of dissociation –just like E. Smart might be.

        • Alethea says:

          All Black,

          I think that common sense can dictate that if Tom Smart had been awake for 3-5 days straight, or taking methamphetamine, or hearing things, he would not have been able to conduct that interview in the first place, nor would his family have allowed him to be interviewed, nor would he have been able to speak as well as he did.

          Special forces guys are trained by professionals to stay awake. Tom Smart is no special forces guy and no pros trained him.

          “But the words ‘amazing story’ I think he ment it as saying ‘this is unbelievable’ or ‘its amazing things like this happen’ ie the context is negative.”

          You can’t know what he meant. This is pure conjecture.

          “He also described the fixation of the cops on Ricci as ‘amazing’ ie amazing that they believed it was Ricci etc.”

          This makes sense. Using the word amazing for unbelievable in this case is very plausible.

          Be clear about something here Mr. All Black, my question if she went willingly is NOT “malicious.”

          “Victims have many options available and moving on, having a full life etc are some of those options.”

          Sorry, but this is a very ignorant statement.

          • car lady says:

            “We do know. It’s part of the public record. Mitchell saw Elizabeth for maybe 1 or 2 min downtown when Lois offered him work. Then saw her for maybe 5min at the house when both girls were playing the harp. That was it. Based on that he decided to go back and kidnap Elizabeth.”

            It does not matter what the public record says. Do you really think that Elizabeth’s parents would honestly admit that they allowed this man to spend time socializing with their children? They were already being criticized for allowing a drifter into their home around their children. Elizabeth’s true interaction with this man will never been known. And if this were true, that the children only saw Mitchell for maybe 1 0r 2 min. downtown and then 5 minutes while the girls were “playing the harp” (obviously since they were playing the harp they would not have been looking up at Mitchell) then how plausible would it be that Mary Katherine was able to positively ID Mitchell in the dark – when she only saw him for 1-2 min. in her life? Not very.

            “You contradict yourself. This happened back in 2002 and 3 months for 2003. The girl was very shy and withdrawn in those first media appearances but has since grown into a confident and poised young woman. She has evidently being through a ‘process’ but you claimed before that she hasn’t being through any help or process of recovery.”

            It is not I, but you who continue to contradict both yourself and what ES and her family continue to say. I love the fact that you try to equate the growth from being a shy adolescent, (which by the way many adolescents are – this is not uncommon) to becoming a confident adult, to going through a “healing process” to recover from “major trauma.” You are comparing apples to oranges. The fact that ES may have been “shy” as an adolescent, and is now more outspoken as an adult is the process that most of us go through in life. People generally tend to become more outspoken as they grow older. It in no way has ANYTHING to do with the HEALING PROCESS. You need to go back and watch the Oprah interview, and Dateline interviews. It is clearly stated by ES and her family that ES was fine from the day she came home until now. Elizabeth stated to Oprah, when Oprah questioned her as to how she got over the ordeal, that from the “first week” of being home she decided to “move on” and that it happened “quickly.” This family never acknowledges this occurrence as having any impact on ES life or of having caused her any trauma from which she needed to move on. As ES herself stated, she is glad she is left “unscarred” from this experience. Your arguments are WEAK, to say the least.

            “Rubbish! she had nothing to gain by testifying in such detail, in the full glare of the media, in the most conservative state in the US She was willing to testify to put Mitchell away; she could’ve taken the easy way out and just let Mitchell rot in a Psych Hospital but pushed to have him prosecuted. If anything, she has helped rape victims”

            I love it, “rubbish.” This reminds me of something my grandmother would say. Anyway, ES had a lot to gain by testifying. She put herself back in the spotlight, which she obviously wanted to be in, since she reportedly was upset that she could not star in her own movie, and it got her a lot of attention. She has not “helped” rape victims in any manner. Sure there are people who think she has for perhaps speaking out, but this would be the only sense that she would have been a help in that she set an example that it is okay to speak out about rape. This one positive message that she may have sent to some survivors of rape, is completely consumed by the many negative messages she sent to survivors, in ways previously mentioned by me.

            “No. However I do work with rape victims, that’s male rape victims who mostly aren’t gay so its a zillion times more traumatic for them. I know what I’m talking about here. I can tell you that a strong, loving family that supports you and loves you unconditionally does work miracles, miracles you can’t get from any therapy alone.”

            Are you saying that rape is more traumatic for a straight man than for a woman? I am not clear in what you are saying. Families do not “work miracles” when a person’s psyche has been damaged due to major trauma. Sure, they can be a wonderful help and support, by they by no means “work miracles” just by being there to talk to. There is a HEALING PROCESS that must take place. And ALL victims of abuse do suffer from things such as PTSD, flashbacks, nightmares, anxiety disorders, low self esteem, etc. I have never heard of any who didn’t, except of course the miraculous ES! If you are indeed a psychologist, PLEASE do not tell the family or the survivor of abuse that the family is going to “work miracles” for them. It would be a serious disservice to them. The healing and recovery process is a hard one and usually a lengthy one, and there are no “miracles.”

            “The parents of Shawn Hornbeck have said that their hopes increased when elizabeth returned -and thankfully they got their miracle too! Many others are still hoping their turn will come too.”

            It is interesting that even YOU resort to the use of the word “miracle” in regard to this case.” You are the perfect example of one who is ignoring the facts in this case, and who is completely blinded by your own lack of desire to see the real truth. It is obvious that you enjoy the fact that the ES story waters down sex crimes against women, and makes it appear as though they are really no big deal.

            • All_black says:

              “Are you saying that rape is more traumatic for a straight man than for a woman?”

              yeah, a ‘zillion’ times more traumatic!

              “If you are indeed a psychologist, PLEASE do not tell the family or the survivor of abuse that the family is going to “work miracles” for them.”

              Family support is the first thing we look at because it’s proven to minimize recivity rates and proven to be the best starting point for the healing process. In every psychological study a person’s family and background is always addressed because it is THE main factor in determining who we are. In my book, family IS the first ‘miracle’.

              Research proves that a person’s life experience will generally determine their progress in healing and support groups and family, which is a major part of that life experience, will be critical in their recovery process. People without family support generally find it harder to recover from major trauma. But I wonder if any of this is getting through; I suspect you will find the negative to each sentence actually, now that I think about it, right?

              • car lady says:

                Hello All Black,

                “yeah, a ‘zillion’ times more traumatic!”

                This statement is shocking beyond words. How dare you. You are not qualified nor will ever be qualified to say this. Have you been a woman or little girl who was raped? Your words are revolting. Your statement, however, proves my point COMPLETELY about the ES case. THIS CASE IS DOING AN ENORMOUS DISSERVICE TO WOMEN AND YOUNG GIRLS BY WATERING DOWN THE EFFECTS OF SEXUAL ABUSE, misleading weak-minded individuals into believing that the effects of rape on women and girls aren’t so bad. YOU are a PRIME example of one who has been brainwashed into believing such garbage. How truly sad. I Pray to god that you NEVER treat a young girl or women who is suffering from the horrible effects of rape or molestation.

                “Research proves that a person’s life experience will generally determine their progress in healing and support groups and family, which is a major part of that life experience, will be critical in their recovery process. People without family support generally find it harder to recover from major trauma. But I wonder if any of this is getting through; I suspect you will find the negative to each sentence actually, now that I think about it, right?”

                Au contraire, All Black. I too believe that family and support groups are very important in a person’s recovery. They “help” and “support.” And I also believe that individuals who do not have supportive individuals in their life may have a harder time recovering from a major trauma. This is common sense. I have NO problem with the idea that family helps. I do not, however, believe that they work miracles simply by being there. The traumatized individual still must deal with the effects of the abuse (and there will most certainly be unpleasant effects) and they must go through an INNER healing process that is a lot of hard work for most people. This, as previously stated, is what is missing from the Smart case. If ES would just come out and say how simply talking to her parent’s cured her the first week she was home, why here recovery happened so “quickly,” as she states, and how she has been able to remain “unscarred” from being possibly raped over 1000X, I would be thrilled!!!! Then other victims of rape could start applying the “Elizabeth Smart Near-Instantaneous Method of Recovery from Sex Abuse” to their lives, and all the victims of rape and abuse would be a whole lot better off. It would be a break-through in modern day psychiatry! Sadly, as of yet, this has failed to happen, and you and I both know it never will, because ES claims she was never traumatized. I do not know how many different ways this can be said to you before you will start to get it.

              • All_black says:

                “from being possibly raped over 1000X, I would be thrilled!!!! ”

                Technically and legally true however she considered herself a ‘wife’ , and her family considered her ‘brainwashed’ at first because of that belief E Smart had, so I suspect that she is more of a battered wife syndrome case rather than child abuse -although legally it is rape and child abuse etc. Then today, instead of killing the husband, she comes back to send him to jail for life.

                “You are not qualified nor will ever be qualified to say this. ”

                Again, I am qualified, and the Registry is publicly available. But there aren’t women in male prison off course so I don’t counsel female rape victims.

                “into believing that the effects of rape on women and girls aren’t so bad.”

                Its the other way round, male on male is more traumatic for the victim, but the rape of girls is also a terrible thing.

    • Lacee says:

      Tom Smart was not seeing things, he was hearing voices. & it was 3 or 4 nights of no sleep, not 5 or 6. Just FYI to you.

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