Before you read this article, please be aware:
I am educated about trauma, trauma-bonding, intermittent good/bad treatment of the victim, children believing their abusers, the mind adapting in order to survive, Stockholm Syndrome, and victims depending on their captor for survival.
I LIVED it as a child, with my rapist father, and an incestuous family that I had to survive in for years. I not only lived it, but I have written all about the psychology of trauma in hundreds of articles on this Blog. You can check out my Blog’s main page here: https://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/ and from there you can do a search on trauma articles, read my story, and do a search for other articles about Elizabeth Smart.
I find Ms. Smart t0 be extremely condescending to other survivors of rape and trauma.
Elizabeth has been quoted in a recent article about her foundation and her public speaking about her “ordeal.”
She says:
“Thank goodness it did happen to me and not somebody else, and I can go on and speak on it, and I’ll be fine. I can come home at night, and it won’t haunt me, and it won’t stop me from being happy. But somebody else, maybe not.”
Why does this woman think she is so special? Does she think she is protected by God, but other rape and kidnapping survivors are not? Does Elizabeth Smart think she has some special gift that allows her to “magically” heal from thousands of rapes, trauma, being tied to a tree like a dog, and forced into oral sex with a man while his wife watches…..while other, ‘less fortunate’ survivors of such atrocities are not blessed with this Divine protection?
Elizabeth Smart says:
“Since I can make a difference and people will listen to me when I speak, it’s when I realized I want to make a difference for other people. I have had this pretty horrific experience, but it can open so many doors for me that otherwise wouldn’t have been opened.”
How egotistical. “I” can make a difference. People will listen “to me” when “I” speak. It can open doors for “me.”
Here’s the article you originally clicked to read…….
Elizabeth Smart Raped Up To 1,000 Times, Forced Into Repugnant Sex Acts and Tied to a Tree; But Shows No Sign of Having Suffered Trauma and Never Needed Therapy?
Elizabeth Smart, who says she was raped 3-4 times daily, testified on the stand last week that she was also tethered between two trees “like an animal,” and CNN has reported that she was forced “to watch and participate in sex acts she found repugnant.”
I do not believe for one second that Elizabeth Smart was not affected by her “ordeal.” If she was raped four times a day and forced to watch sex between Mitchell and Barzee, and made to give Mitchell oral sex, then she is either hiding something, totally repressing deep shame, trauma, and emotional distress –or she is lying about what happened to her in those mountains of Utah, and lying about how she got there.
If her account of things are truthful, then no amount of ‘talking to her parents’ will heal what she endured. If she is denying her pain and trauma by pretending that she is so special that she can just ‘move on with her life,’ then she has no right to tell other victims and survivors of rape and trauma that they can also just wave away their pain and suffering. This is something she has publicly professed to other victims. This is NOT OKAY.
“Smart told the jury she thought about running away that first morning, despite the threats against her life and her family. “I didn’t want to spend another day with him. I never wanted to see him again.”
“I never wanted to see him again?” Sounds more like a break-up with a boyfriend than trying to get away from a deranged rapist.
CNN states that E. Smart said that, “He was an unholy hypocrite. There was nothing divine about his mission to steal her in the dark of night and make her his unwilling child bride.”
Hmmmm. Nothing Divine about his mission? Does that reflect that she had gone willingly because Mitchell had duped her into thinking that he had a Divine mission that she would be a part of, and a nice adventure away from the confines of a strict Mormon home? Why would she even say this in the first place? Most people know that kidnapping and rape are not Divine acts of God. Did he originally coax her to willingly go with him because he told her it would be a “Divine mission?”
“Well, nine months of living with him and seeing him proclaim that he was God’s servant and he had been called to do God’s work, and everything that he did to me and to my family is something I know God would never tell someone to do,” she said. (CNN)
Nine months of “living with him?” Not “nine months of captivity?”
CNN also states that she said, ”God would never tell someone to kidnap a young girl from her family’s home in the middle of the night, from her bed that she shared with her sister, from her sister’s side, and continue to rape her and sexually abuse her. … I know he was not called of God because God would never do something like that.”
E. Smart sure talks a lot about God not calling Mitchell to do these things and that he was ‘not of God’ etc etc. Is she trying to convince herself or us? Did E. Smart become entranced by Mitchell when he was invited to her family home and did she believe that he was of God? So much so- that she willingly took off with him the night of the so-called “kidnapping?”
And why was a fourteen year-old girl sleeping in the same bed with her little sister? The Smarts certainly had enough money for two beds. I find this weird.
“Smart was followed by several other prosecution witnesses. The prosecution and defense agreed to what two of the witnesses had to offer, and their testimony was read into the court record as a stipulation. A waitress testified that she often served Mitchell and Barzee and saw them joined by another woman wearing a veil during the late summer or early fall of 2002. Another woman testified her husband briefly brought them home for a night or two; the women were silent but Mitchell smoked cigars and talked religion with her husband, Ada Chestnut said.”
At age fourteen, so many chances for Elizabeth to tell people who she was and to freely walk away. At age fourteen, Elizabeth Smart was not a child anymore.
CNN is reporting that Elizabeth testified that she had wanted to return to Salt Lake City in March of 2003 and told her alleged kidnapper that “the Lord was calling them back to Salt Lake, and Mormon girls in the hills above the city would be potential wives to add to the family.” This doesn’t sound like someone suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. It sounds like someone who has all of their wits about them. If she could come up with this plan, then she very well could have taken her veil off at those restaurants and revealed her true self to the staff and customers.
If Elizabeth Smart was truly a victim of all of this trauma, and of the daily vile and degrading sexual abuse; and if she truly only talked to her parents for therapy and never showed any signs of having suffered trauma… then one day, she will suffer from PTSD, psychosomatic symptoms, fears, phobias, nightmares, sexual dysfunction, and numerous other problems. That is– if she was truly kidnapped against her will at knife point, raped four times a day, tied to a tree for a long period of time, and made to watch vile sex acts between Barzee and Mitchell. Time tells the truth. We’ll see.
Please visit my home page by clicking here.
Be sure to check out my other articles on Elizabeth Smart:
What Lies Behind the Veil of the Elizabeth Smart Case?
Elizabeth Smart If You Cannot Be Specific About How To Move On From Trauma Then Shut the Hell Up
Tortured Raped Enslaved, Alicia Is a True Survivor, a Warrior For Children, a True Inspiration
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EVIL SITS AT THE DINNER TABLE 
The extraordinary resilience of Elizabeth Smart.
by Margaret Talbot October 21, 2013
Elizabeth Smart sat backstage in a ballroom of the Washington Hilton hotel, where, in a few minutes, she would be telling an audience of sixteen hundred teen-agers her story of survival. It has been eleven years since a vagrant abducted Smart from her family’s home, in Salt Lake City, when she was fourteen. After nine months of captivity, during which she was repeatedly raped and threatened with murder, she was rescued by the police, in Utah. Smart’s speech was the keynote address of the annual conference of Key Club International. It was a steamy July day, but Smart looked composed in a ruffle-collared black dress, her blond hair in a chignon. She had no notes. I told her that I liked her red shoes, which reminded me of the ruby slippers that Dorothy clicks to return home from Oz. “Every girl should have a pair,” she said. “Don’t you think?”
At the lectern, Smart began by conjuring the kind of ordinary girl she was when she went to bed on June 4, 2002. That evening, she’d spent a lot of time persuading her parents to let her join her best friend’s family on a vacation to a small town in Utah, only to have her older brother, Charles, tease her about how boring the trip was sure to be. She’d shot back, “Hey, what if those are the last words you ever say to me?” The audience laughed, nervously. A few minutes later, Smart arrived at the part of her story where she woke in the middle of the night with a knife at her throat. The ballroom got very quiet.
Although Smart will never escape being associated with the lurid captivity she endured, she has chosen to remain a public figure and has been unusually successful at doing so on her own terms. She is a full-time advocate for the prevention of child abuse who lobbies for legislation and heads a foundation. She delivers some eighty speeches a year, and they reliably end on a note of quiet resilience. She told the teen-agers in Washington, “Never be afraid to speak out. Never be afraid to live your life. Never let your past dictate your future.” . .
+++++++++++++++++Here we have Elizabeth Smart speaking out from her un-healed psyche again and telling people to not let their past dictate their future. This is not something that survivors try to do. It just happens due to deposits made by a rapist that need to withdrawn before a person can live his or her life. She has not withdrawn any of the deposits by her abuser, Therefore, she is letting her past dictate her future. She is trying to help others while she has chosen not to deal with her own wounds. I do not admire her. I think she is a coward and a person who capitalizes on ill gotten fame to make herself famous and garner attention. I detest her behavior and her ignorance. I can only say to Elizabeth Smart, Shut Up! I don’t want advice from someone who has chosen to ignore the pain and suffering that sexual abuse has caused me! Enough Said!
The writer of this argument is a sad angry soul who cannot believe that there are those of us who do actually heal from traumatic experiences by the grace of God. I am sad for her that she thinks Elizabeth is in denial.t is clear she is the one in denial about other peoples strength.
You ought to read my article on how much physical suffering I have healed from -through the Grace of God- physical problems that probably would have sent you and Elizabeth Smart to doctors for RX drugs or surgeries to “heal.”
By the GRACE OF GOD, I have healed from a severe case of chronic fatigue immune dysfunction syndrome, shingles, migraine headaches, heart problems, bladder problems, bowel disturbances, and a long list of other physical ailments that are too long to write here.
E. Smart did not say she was healed by The Grace of God. She said she healed by “letting it go” and by “talking to her parents.”
Nevertheless, E. Smart most likely was NOT a kidnapping victim, but went willingly and stayed willingly.
I just saw this headline on the internet on another website or blog: Elizabeth Smart was raped 3-4 times a day for 9 months straight means they had sex 800-1,000 times and she didn’t get pregnant? It echoes some of your questions or eye brow raising questions. I am wondering how she did not get pregnant also. It seems impossible and IT IS. Every other story with high amounts of sexual assault and captivity has revealed a pregnancy or two or more. Something seems for sure funny about this case. I am not sure what to believe about it. I am sure some assault sexually occurred because men will be men but I dont know how much etc. I do not like high profile cases and no witnesses……
Thank you for thinking outside the box. It is so refreshing when people open their mind.
Thanks. I just saw noticed your photo with your dog. It is very refreshing and inspiring to see your photo and know all that your have endured and overcome. Congratulations to You.
I am in the beginning of recovery for myself. I just thought about my own sexual assault story and I myself dealt with child sexual abuse and the perpetrator repeatedly sexually assaulted me and I became pregnant and he forced me to abort the baby. It is so easy to not even think about myself and my ordeal when I read about a case like smarts. It just clicked for me that I was repeatedly raped and I myself was impregnated. Therefore, I know for sure it is impossible to be repeatedly raped and not become pregnant. I guess it is apart of the mental damage to speak about someone elses case and not even see my own similarity to it or impossibility of her not becoming pregnant after repeated rapes.. Wow…..Thanks for your blog…
Js, My heart goes out to you more than you know.
I am so sorry. I am happy you found my Blog.
Treat yourself well during your recovery, and always.
Alethea
Thank you Js. I hope to inspire more very soon. I am towards the end of my healing journey, and have quite a story to tell.
More to come…
Will you be posting any thoughts on the ohio case of three girls kidnapped raped beaten and impregnated by three men for years. So sorry to see this happened to them. So glad to see the captors or three rapists are caught and will be prosecuted since so many are not. So glad the man freed them and was such a brave hero risking his own life to do so.
I did not hear of this case. Can you post a link? I would love to read about it. Thank you.
Hi,
Here are the links to the high profile Ohio case. I am amazed since I am a rape survivor at how the media makes all high profile cases seem like the girls will have an immediately glorious life and all is well. They know nothing about rape and the trauma of it and the scars that need attending to. These girls will probably go on unaware of all the trauma on the body and symptoms of rape such as vaginal pain, nausea, or vomiting when the memories began to rise to the surface from extensive therapy. The amount of damage done to them is not un·sur·mount·a·ble but it will take a lot of therapy. Of course you are well aware of all of this.
Just venting due to how they portray the high profile cases and even joke about certain aspects of it. In this case, they are joking about the guy who rescued the girls after one of them screamed for a window for help. The african american guy is a fast talker and has become an internet sensation and rap songs are being written with his testimony of what happened during the rescue of the girls. He mentioned McDonalds in his testimony and how he was eating a big mac when he heard a girl call to him for help. McDonald’s is capitalizing on this mention of them and tweeted a few tweets or more. The public insists that he get lifetime big macs and many compare him to comedians etc. All this is sad because it takes the focus off of the victims and the horrific ordeal they have suffered. It also downplays rape and the trama of it. You have mentioned things of this nature with the Amanda Smart case. Thanks for having this website so many of us survivors can vent.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/09/18138242-best-of-friends-neighbors-describe-close-bond-between-victim-castros-daughter?lite
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/08/ariel-castro-kidnapping-rape-charge_n_3238832.html
p.s. the girls were impregnated and beat while pregnant, had many miscarriages over the time kidnapped and they suspect the fetuses are buried in the back yard. One girl, amanda berrry gave birth to one of her babies and she is 6. Many say she will have a good recovery due to being so young and having the love of her mother. I suppose amanda berry gave birth in the house without any medical attention. This story is unbelievable. The miscarriages all 3 had were not handled with medical attention either. They are blessed to be alive.
My comment is long due to so many erroneous errors in your article. I will give my opinion beneath the paragraphs below.
Smart told the jury she thought about running away that first morning, despite the threats against her life and her family. “I didn’t want to spend another day with him. I never wanted to see him again.” (He has charmed her. she has liked him to survive or the mind did. It is called trauma bonding.)
“I never wanted to see him again?” Sounds more like a break-up with a boyfriend than trying to get away from a deranged rapist. (this is a deep inexplicable bond that defies logic. a trauma bond includes a person in power over another, sexual activity, and threat or extremes of constant threats and kindness (intermittent good-bad treatment).
CNN states that E. Smart said that, “He was an unholy hypocrite. There was nothing divine about his mission to steal her in the dark of night and make her his unwilling child bride.”
Hmmmm. Nothing Divine about his mission? Does that reflect that she had gone willingly because Mitchell had duped her into thinking that he had a Divine mission that she would be a part of, and a nice adventure away from the confines of a strict Mormon home? Why would she even say this in the first place? Most people know that kidnapping and rape are not Divine acts of God. Did he originally coax her to willingly go with him because he told her it would be a “Divine mission?” (Children have a willingness to believe what they are told, childlike faith, and a trusting nature. she is a child and has believed and speaks as a child believes and oh 14 is a child as far as thinking, you are wrong. i know you meant 3 4 5 etc is a child but 14 is also.
“Well, nine months of living with him and seeing him proclaim that he was God’s servant and he had been called to do God’s work, and everything that he did to me and to my family is something I know God would never tell someone to do,” she said. (CNN)
Nine months of “living with him?” Not “nine months of captivity?” (the mind adapts to survive, he is less of a threat then. this is the trauma bonding. the feet say run but the mind says differently and stays. he charmed her and she like him to survive. stockholm is this exact thing. it is living with him to a child’s mind. an innocent child’s mind says it this way or as it is. )
CNN also states that she said, ”God would never tell someone to kidnap a young girl from her family’s home in the middle of the night, from her bed that she shared with her sister, from her sister’s side, and continue to rape her and sexually abuse her. … I know he was not called of God because God would never do something like that.” (she attempts to break her child programming or brainwashing.) It is not easy to do so……people who don’t understand may not have encountered a very charming rapist. they do not hit or beat you up and this deepens the trauma bond.)
E. Smart sure talks a lot about God not calling Mitchell to do these things and that he was ‘not of God’ etc etc. Is she trying to convince herself or us? Did E. Smart become entranced by Mitchell when he was invited to her family home and did she believe that he was of God? So much so- that she willingly took off with him the night of the so-called “kidnapping?”
And why was a fourteen year-old girl sleeping in the same bed with her little sister? The Smarts certainly had enough money for two beds. I find this weird.
“Smart was followed by several other prosecution witnesses. The prosecution and defense agreed to what two of the witnesses had to offer, and their testimony was read into the court record as a stipulation. A waitress testified that she often served Mitchell and Barzee and saw them joined by another woman wearing a veil during the late summer or early fall of 2002. Another woman testified her husband briefly brought them home for a night or two; the women were silent but Mitchell smoked cigars and talked religion with her husband, Ada Chestnut said.”
At age fourteen, so many chances for Elizabeth to tell people who she was and to freely walk away. At age fourteen, Elizabeth Smart was not a child anymore. (wrong. she is a child at 14)
CNN is reporting that Elizabeth testified that she had wanted to return to Salt Lake City in March of 2003 and told her alleged kidnapper that “the Lord was calling them back to Salt Lake, and Mormon girls in the hills above the city would be potential wives to add to the family.” This doesn’t sound like someone suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. It sounds like someone who has all of their wits about them. If she could come up with this plan, then she very well could have taken her veil off at those restaurants and revealed her true self to the staff and customers. (wow. she has enough power left after being raped to take her veil off. none of that is true. rape victims are truly powerless and helpless to do anything. She began to depend on him for her existence as a child does with parents. this is why children are not to be abused. they are loving trusting teachable and innocent and believe as they are told. i did and i was just a teenager but i had the mind of a 10 year old due to a dysfunctional family.)
My comments are for others who may read this website and not the website owner. There is so much misunderstanding about rape and I would like to present a different point of view. i do believe no one can sway you. You are an adult and they are not open and trusting and teachable like kids are.
You seem to be under the illusion that girls (or e.smart) have superhuman power after they are raped. a person is rendered powerless and helpless. you are in denial and deny when people confront your misconceptions on this website. it is like talking to a door knob ..nothing goes in and lots comes out of your mouth. several distortions from dysfunctional parenting exist in your thinking and one of them is , you are always right. never ever saying, you have a good point, i will think about that or consider that. your e.smart comments are filled with erroneous and speculative comments and no evidence to support them. (mine are too but i sway to the side of the victimized person) you would fail miserably in a court of law. you appear to be supporting the rapist as innocent and declaring ms. smart as not innocent or guilty and a liar. people did similar with the Kobe Bryant rape case where he raped a girl or young female in a hotel room. rape is rape and nothing can undo a rape to me. good day! you have clearly qualified yourself for what you are unqualified to do. You would need a phd in psychotherapy and this would not be enough to evaluate ms smarts case. A phd in trauma is needed also. Again, this is being written for those who don’t understand rape and trauma and who want a different view of this smart case. I am having some debate antics with this subject and none of what i am saying is meant to ridicule another person. Enjoy your freedom of speech and i will enjoy mine.
Bree,
I am well aware of everything you wrote regarding trauma, trauma-bonding, intermittent good/bad treatment of the victim, children believing their abusers, the mind adapting in order to survive, Stockholm Syndrome, victims depending on their captor for survival, etc. etc.
I LIVED it as a child, with my rapist father, and an incestuous family that I had to survive in for years. I not only lived it, but I have written all about the psychology of trauma in hundreds of articles on this Blog. You can check out my Blog’s main page here: https://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/ and from there you can do a search, not only on trauma articles and on my story, but a search for other articles about Elizabeth Smart…where I have expressed my point numerous times. If, after reading all of that, and the comments for each article, you still wish to perceive me as you do, then you are blind and ignorant by your own will.
…and you might want to look at your problem with me not responding how YOU think I should in my comments to my readers. You criticize me for it, but I see myself as being strong in the face of apple-pie thinking, and in the face of denial…. and things like, “oh, how dare someone criticize Elizabeth Smart!” or, “Oh, no, she could NOT possibly have run away! How dare you suggest such a thing!?”
I am true to myself and don’t acquiesce in order to be liked or to be accepted, or to gain readers on my Blog.
Alethea
To the author of this article I am going to pray for your evil hatred soul.
Why don’t you instead pray for an open-mind, and the ability to see that just because YOU believe one way, it doesn’t make someone else wrong, evil, or full of hate.
I can’t believe how much misunderstanding people have about trauma. They are critical because they lack information and knowledge. My favorite movie line is from an al pacino movie, “What else did you see with your limited vision?” I love this movie line because people often make comments with limited knowledge. I am guilty of this but I like to have a change in point of view once I am called on the carpet or do further research. My fear is that many people do not desire new information which precedes a change of heart! blessings.
All u guy r a bunch of nuts…just because she didn’t let this
Situation stop her, she was never raped. I have heard it all.To the author of this horrible article I am going to pray for your evil soul.
Expand yourself outside the expected norms of society and open up to the fact that not every rape victim is being honest with themsleves or with others.
E. Smart is neither perfect, nor above criticism.
And maybe it’s YOU who is the “nut”…ever think of that?
Elizabeth is doing what many people do. She is riding on her good childhood into her happy ending. If a person is fortunate enough to have a very nice upbringing, he or she can go ahead and assimilate or take on adult life after a trauma. However, she will not be able to escape being human. She is not Jesus of Nazareth. She will have consequences for not addressing horrific trauma and for repressing emotions for years. The repressed emotions will fill to the brim as life brings its inevitable twists and turns. When the pot gets too full, it will start to boil over. It is then that she will not experience such bliss. The pain will fester like an open sore. She will need to deal with the repressed emotions or boil over into anger or depressed moods. In addition, she will begin to have physical symptoms of repressed emotions such as health issues. My spouse rode on his good childhood for years and denied having any pain about the loss of his mom at 14. He never went into therapy and was a depressed man for years. He then began to get angry often and then physical sickness came upon him. He is being forced to uncover the pain swept under the carpet to live life to the fullest. He
was emotionally dead and still denied having any problem with the death of his mom and his beautiful family life.
I believe I have stated this fact in my many articles on Elizabeth Smart.
Here goes…..We have to be very careful criticizing young rape victims. The way she copes is the the way she copes at her age of maturity. Rape is so complex. It can cause mental derangement and that is where intellectual capacity is severely reduced and a person can make decisions that are not truly his or hers. This benefits the rapist. For example, going to be with the rapist after the first rape or not speaking up and saying anything to let the person know to stop during repeated rapes. Also the voice is silenced after the first rape and the person can not tell anyone if they wanted to. This is a work of evil or the devil, many on earth will never understand because you cant see past your little nose and think we are on the planet all alone with out any evil influences or beings that inhabit the body of others to harm people.
As far as her liking this man, if he is charming that can occur for sure. It can be like a trance and she can be made to feel in her brain that she loves him and defend him and not speak against him no matter what. It is the power of rape. If you have not been raped , you will not understand this at all, not in a million years.
The moving on with her life….. is also a sign of denial which is a coping mechanism. She needs serious psychotherapy but she is so young and wants to be loved and in love. She has put this first. As she matures, she will forced to look back and this event will surface and cause a nervous breakdown and then she can break through to real healing and not sweep it all under the carpet. i was victimized at a young age and my life has played out almost exactly as hers. i moved on and swept it under the carpet, graduated, got married, had a child, got a job. and it all came crashing down at 46. middle age is about the turning point for me. i sounded smitten with the attacker and even in love and defensive about him etc. rape is complex and many should not even open a mouth to speak about it and attack the victims. it is rape and it causes some bizarre behavior due to the effect on the mind. it changes people and this is unbeknownst to the victim. i thought i was fine just like this young girl sounds. i had no clue i was mentally deranged and in need of tremendous therapy. absolutely no clue….. i didnt know i had brain damage that would later cause physical health challenges due to a mind body reaction to trauma that is severe. This man came around her at a young age and defiled her. Yes she sounds like she believed his mission from God. Why? she was a kid and they believe adults and that is a shame when they are doing evil to them. i believed my attacker and all he said due to being a child. he taught me things and they stayed in place in my brain for years as truth. the things were wrong. he had a power over me. this is why men rape to get power they don’t have because they are weak. a weak man wants to feel manly at any cost. this is needed like air to a man. he asserts himself and rapes a girl, and he then feels like a man. the lust is secondary. this may be hard for people to understand because you are not a weak rapist. Ms smart will have a nervous breakdown and discover that her inner child has believed lies and is shutdown due to trauma or ptsd and in need of serious care and healing. she will need a team to put her back together again. she is young and unaware of how the psyche hides pain and hurt and avoids it. All of the things done to her will need to be meticulously extracted from her brain. Left hand writing is quite effective due to all trauma being stored in the right hemisphere. It is then that the tears, fear, anger, hate and contempt will begin to flow from the surface of her being. She will then awaken from the trance put on her by this man or beast that broke in and stole from the beauty of a child. The journey will be long but the rewards will be great!!! She needs to write and put things in another persons name to come out of the trance and see how horrible what happened to her really is. i had to do this and it was surreal. i could not register how bad it was until i put it in a story in someone else name. why? it is the power of rape. i hate rape and i have a need for vengeance against those who do such an awful crime. castration would be good ..but i know to leave this in God’s hands. i must remarry my spouse due to being under this trance when i married and supposedly in love with the rapist due to Stockholm syndrome and brain damage. Rape sucks….. i will survive. blessings to all survivors of such an awful ordeal. p.s. the rapist impregnated me and forced me to abort the baby against my will. i had so much mental derangement that i didnt even understand that he had no right to force me to abort against my will. i didnt understand that it was my body and i can do what i want with my body. The mental damage from rape is awful. I know now this person robbed me of my choice or right to life and regarded my body as his own. He was full of evil and acted to harm me and my unborn child. He was a psychopath.
Lull TD,
You are preaching to the choir with all you have written about rape, attachment to the abuser, and moving on in order to survive.
If you did not get my whole point by reading the article (maybe you ought to read my other articles on Elizabeth Smart if you did not get my point with this one), then I have nothing further to say….except:
When you say, “We have to be very careful criticizing young rape victims.” you mean me. Please don’t sugarcoat it by saying “we.”
No victim, survivor, or human being on this earth is above criticism. I was a victim of child rape, death threats, terror, and abuse for years….and I probably suffered more than than Elizabeth Smart did. But many people have no problem in criticizing me for criticizing her manner of minimizing and waving away trauma like a fly.
I stand by everything I said because what she has said publicly has negatively affected me and many other rape survivors. I am just one of the only people who dares to say it.
Alethea
Call my reaction what you will, but, I have felt like an utter failure when reading about – and observing Elizabeth Smart’s demeanor – regarding her ‘miraculous’ recovery.
I, too, endured prolonged abuse – both sexes – and suffered through unimaginable threats to my very life during much of it.
Yes, we all develop different “coping” skills when it comes to enduring and subsequently attempting to recover from prolonged sexual abuse-trauma – to SOME extent.
However, FEW of us have had our having survived the many horrors and tortures of sexual abuse – RAPE – turned into an “instant success story” by an exploitative media, who obviously prefer marketable, media darling victims facing down the most disgusting of wretched villains – and a nice and tidy, fairy-tale ending of a young woman — who should serve as an example to all of the rest of us — of triumph over…. “Shhhh, you know… let’s just call it evil.”
I.Don’t.Buy.It For every “Elizabeth Smart” there are millions of others who are WITHOUT the media exposure, world-wide support, justice system advocacy and/or means to receive the best kind of treatment made instantly available to her.
Nonetheless, the affects of her “trauma” remain to be seen – simply because THAT isn’t the part of these stories that not only does the public NOT want to hear about, but that so many “victims” struggle with, untreated – for many many social, cultural, religious and political reasons.
Your point of view is a valid and courageous one, Alethea.
Why Not, this comment is awesome. You were on a great roll when you wrote it. I think our best writing comes from our emotions and righteous anger.
You summed up the exact reasons for why I wrote these articles on E. Smart in the first place. Hopefully, those who want to criticize me will read your comment here before they blast me for my opinion about Elizabeth.
Good job. Thanks so much.
Alethea
Thank you. Your welcome. It’s a privilege to come here, be honest and experience resolve. Your article and the comments helped me to bring that nagging confusion and guilt over my reaction(s) to the ES story into perspective.
I think reading this comment helps me better understand your viewpoints regarding elizabeth smart. I felt inadequacy and failure momentarily after seeing Ms. smart on a talk show speaking about her marriage and how her mom told her to be happy after all she has been through. I must admit I was wondering how she recovered so fast and remarkably well. I then began to focus on the mental aspects of rape and that is when I felt awareness and empathy for her. I must admit I am more outraged at the media for giving press coverage to her. She is clearly to unstable to be helping or encouraging others who have been victimized. Again, I undertand your stand more after reading the comments by Why not? I just tend to focus more on media for giving her press coverage(and her Parents) as far as righteous indignation and less on ms. smart who has been victimized as a child and brainwashed and needs deprogramming. I did feel angry with her comment, “This ordeal can help open doors for her that otherwise would not be opened.” It sounds like a comment her mom and dad would be behind 100%. Again, I understand how her comments have negatively effected rape survivors, but I just tend to focus more on media and the parents who gave her advice after returning home. The parents needed to read and research rape and trauma to best help her. They did not. They have responded to her wounds as if they were a tiny prick with a thorn. I also realize she is an adult now and accountable for all that she says and does. I just wish she were aware of the need to heal her inner child and stop speaking out from a damaged brain or psyche and making comments that hurt or offend survivors of rape.
Dear Lull T D,
I am so happy that you are beginning to understand my points when it comes to Elizabeth Smart.
You too felt inadequate and like a failure, after seeing Ms. smart on a talk show. You are certainly NOT alone in those feelings, and although you felt awareness and empathy for her, and are more outraged at the media for giving press coverage to her, many victims and survivors of torture, child rape, and CSA have gone through something pretty heavy by seeing her (in my view) self-righteous mannerism and words.
You are correct, she is too unstable to be “helping or encouraging” other victims, and in my view….she does it to the detriment of others.
The media and her parents are only partially responsible. There is some part of her ego that enjoyed doing what she was doing, and that is a fact. The human ego exists. Elizabeth Smart is certainly not somehow Heavenly ordained to be above her own ego.
Smart may very well have been brainwashed by her biological family, but she does not indicate to have a victim-like persona at all. I think there is much more than meets the eye about Ms. Smart, and we may never know the truth.
>I did feel angry with her comment, “This ordeal can help open doors for her that otherwise would not be opened.”>
Well thank you for being honest.
>>”Again, I understand how her comments have negatively effected rape survivors,…>>
Thank you.
>>”...but I just tend to focus more on media and the parents who gave her advice after returning home. The parents needed to read and research rape and trauma to best help her. They did not.”>>
Apparently, nor did Elizabeth…otherwise, she would not have made the comments she has, with the tone she has, and would not have offered some of the most ridiculous advice for healing as she has….like horseback riding and shopping sprees.
Thank you for being honest enough to see past any anger at me, or past any need you might have to see every victim as a total victim…and to thus, understand some of my points.
I appreciate your statement that there are an abundance of good spiritual priests—these Priests have a devotion to bring God closer to mankind and are a “gift from God”.
There are so many good priests—they are truly a “Gift from God” and an inspiration in my life!!! Once I studied for the Priesthood at St. Pius X Seminary, Loras College in Dubuque, Iowa. To this day, fifty years later, those days are remembered as a privilege I received from God.
Did you become a priest?
Are you serious?!? Egotistical? wow! One of the most ignorant things I’ve ever read.
“Since I can make a difference and people will listen to me when I speak, it’s when I realized I want to make a difference for other people. I have had this pretty horrific experience, but it can open so many doors for me that otherwise wouldn’t have been opened.” ~Elizabeth Smart
Yes Tyler, I am serious. If I say those words out loud to myself, as if I have said them, I sound pretty damn egotistical.
How about, “I hope to make a difference and hope that people will listen to me when I speak. I have had this pretty horrific experience, but it can open so many doors for other people that otherwise wouldn’t have been opened.”
Now that sounds like someone who has their ego in check, and who wants to put their grain of sand out into the world, and wants to open doors for OTHERS.
No Jasmine, I did not twist anything around. You specifically said that you hope I “can one day let go of my anger.” YOU said that, not me.
THAT is judging my heart and mind.
“….I didn’t curse you out or call you names.”
I would prefer being cursed or called names than someone being hypocritical with me.
I don’t wish to ‘just agree to disagree’ because that goes against my true self. If you don’t want to be in circular arguments, or don’t wish to continue the dialogue, then stop commenting to me. If you continue to comment and say something that is off, you can expect me to call you on it. Silence is complicity in my book Jasmine, so I will not acquiesce with silence.
You might think I am off in my assessment of Elizabeth being white, attractive, and wealthy, but I have a valid point. It’s the same reason why beautiful little while children are predominately reported about in missing child cases. It is because that is what sells to the American public.
“I wasn’t physically or sexually abused but…”
Ah! There it is. You were not physically or sexually abused as a child, so maybe you ought to take a look at that fact in your judgement of my criticism of Elizabeth Smart. Maybe you would feel differently if you HAD been abused as a child. You have criticized me for criticizing Elizabeth, but in essence, you might want to examine the fact that you base yourself without the experience of having been abused as a child.
“My pain isn’t less or greater than yours. It demands to be felt.”
Be grateful to God that you were not sexually abused as a child. Count your blessings. If your therapist is not helping you to rid yourself of your worthlessness or feeling that girls are laughing at you, then you ought to seek council elsewhere. You should not have to live with those problems. Or why don’t you use Elizabeth Smart’s advice and just “let it go.” Why don’t you use her council to “not dwell on it” and to “not allow it to affect you” when you see girls giggling or when you feel worthless or have a panic attack?
She also recommends horse back riding and shopping. Maybe those things will help you.
You and I both know that what she’s saying doesn’t work. I never said I agreed with her, if I did do you think I would be seeing a therapist? And I do thank God that I’ve never been sexually abused but I can’t be grateful for what I did get. I have a personality disorder that will always be there. Even when I get better at best I’ll be able to recognize my behavior and try to convice myself that what I’m doing is irrational. I can’t be grateful for this. I don’t have a life because of this. I can’t even tell anyone about what I’m going through because I physically can’t. If what she said actually worked I would have a life and for you to throw those words in my face was hurtful. The difference is that I know what she said is bullshit but won’t go so far as to invalidate her entire experience. The moment that real, hard evidence is out there that she’s a liar you can expect an apology from me.
I’m not going to write on this site anymore so no matter what your response is I want you to know that despite everything I honestly wish you well. The echoes of pain will always be there but I hope that it will get easier. I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
I am grateful for what I did get, because there are millions of children who have suffered a lot worse than I did. I am also grateful because it has made me a strong, independent, person…and I thank God for the spiritual Blessing of being able to suffer, find God again, and then heal my soul.
If you label yourself with a “personality disorder that will always be there,” then it will. You say you don’t have a life, and I am truly sorry for your pain. But maybe you ought to read my testimony of how much suffering I have overcome, and how my therapist helped me to heal.
I wasn’t throwing things in your face Jasmine, I was trying to help you to see your problems and to see my point about what Elizabeth Smart says. It obviously worked, because you at least admit that you know what she says about healing is bullshit.
“I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.”
I am very uncomfortable with this. I don’t know what you are praying for me about, but if you insist on putting me in your prayers, then only ask God that I be Blessed with truth, love, abundance, and peace. Anything else you are praying for me about might be based in your conclusions about me as a person.
Here are those links Jasmine, in case you have a true desire to liberate yourself (instead of labeling yourself with disorders and saying they will always be with you):
https://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-the-disease-from-hell-and-for-some-rooted-in-child-sexual-abuse/
I must chime in. Taking advice from someone who has not gone through extensive recovery is ludicrous. Self soothing is great but it must be done in the context of recovery. If not, it is like putting a band aid on top of a huge gunshot in the leg. It will cover some of the wound but it will not stop the bleeding or the pain. Stitches or perhaps surgery will be needed for a complete healing of the wound. Everyone suffers the same. We fall down, we get hurt and we go to the doctor if it is severe. She is no exception. She has taken on a celebrity status which is unfortunate. Many are raped and everyone is equally special and deserving a recovery and a wonderful life fit for the princess they are.
Who are you talking about here? Taking advice from whom? Me, or Elizabeth Smart? If you mean me, I have gone through years of extensive, deep psychoanalysis…and the kind that truly heals.
I was speaking about E. Smart as far as taking advice from her. Some people may take her advice and think that self soothing or horse riding and shopping will fix them and it does not. I tried the shopping sprees for years and years and it did not help. i was addicted only, Great Blog!!!
Sorry Lull TD. I was defensive with that reply because I get so many negative comments about my open opinion on Elizabeth. I might have been having a tough day that day.
I too tried years of shopping. It doesn’t heal anything. It’s a momentary fix, like alcohol or drugs, an affair, or having indiscriminate sex. NONE of these things heal a person. Thank you for enjoying my Blog. 🙂
You welcome! Understood.
I understand that you find Elizabeth’s comments condescending but the fact is we will never truly know what happened to her. Even if we were to personally meet her one day she still probably wouldn’t tell the whole story. But I think that it’s wrong to attack her in this way. The doubt that your articles spread is the doubt that so many victims fear in their own cases and stops them from ever coming forth with their stories. No matter what she is a victim and no one should judge her.
So apparently, no human being who has been a victim of rape, incest, or child sexual abuse should ever be held accountable, or called out on their issues, or told how they might be affecting a large group of people?
“Don’t judge” me for daring to speak about things that go against the grain of society’s collective brain.
Just like you say people should be held accountable for what they say. I’m not saying that Elizabeth’s comments shouldn’t be criticized I’m talking about the fact that you’ve written multiple articles that spread doubt that she is even truly a victim or that make her out to be a liar. That sort of thing is what made my friend not want to report her rape. “no one would believe me” she said. You can criticize her interviews all you want but I think you went too far when you almost belittle what happened to her. Victims read your blog just as they listen to her and all they see is you saying hurtful things about another victim.
Well Jasmine, as you will learn, I am not a person to acquiesce. I feel that false accusations, half-truths, and minimizing of rape and trauma is significant and damaging.
Sorry if it goes against the expected norms of society, or doesn’t sound like I am being “nice” but I do question her story and find it fishy. She is the one who has minimized her experience, not me.
And the reason I wrote all those articles, is because, as a previous victim, I was angered at her and her family. I was minimized by her statements and felt pretty disgusted at her minimization of real trauma, terror and pain.
THAT is how *I* felt. So do you expect me to just be silent about how she made me (and others) feel, just because it does not fit into your view of things?
No, i don’t expect you to hold back on your opinion. You have a right to say whatever you want. But I just wish that you were were more understanding rather than so angry at her. Her two captors were both convicted of their crimes and their defence was not guilty by reason of insanity not that the events she accused them of didn’t happen. I have seen her interviews and have read some of them as well and all I can see is repression. It’s like she has been hypnotized into following a script where nothing that bad happened to her and that she is completely fine. That’s something that religious families do! I come from a very strict Catholic family and what they teach you is to give your pain to the Lord and move on with your life. They don’t want you to talk about it or even think about it. That is what makes my heart clench because I know one day she’s going to snap. You can be angry at her for mininmalizing the pain of rape victims but I wish you could feel sorry for her as well. If she could actually talk about what happened I think it would actually help her more than any amount of praying could.
I noticed this conversation with Jasmine. It was very interesting. I did not think it would come to any agreement. People who have not had any sexual abuse will never come to understand the feelings of people who have been sexually abused.
I can not get the right understanding when I discuss sexual abuse with others. I usually end up having to fix my mind afterwards. Great dialogue with Jasmine! She is like so many people in that she does not look beneath the surface and lives off the top of her head. I use discernment and like to utilize a great portion of my cognitive abilities or mechanisms of how we learn, understand, remember, problem-solve, and pay attention.
I love this comment : I always wonder if Elizabeth had been a poor black teenage girl, who came from a not so great neighborhood, with no religious background, and who was homely….I always wonder, would so many people be defending her, and would so many people have accepted her story at face-value?
I think the same way and have said this each time a high profile case is brought to the light. In the society that we live in today, the answer to the question you posed is NO! If she were a poor black teenage girl, the story would not have been accepted at face value and she would not be defended at all. The story would never have even made headlines! This has been brought out by many people who have studied crime cases. There is an unfair disadvantage or great divide in America. It unfortunately is causing your blog to be eaten up with negative comments that attempt to diminish you or silence your point of view or stance…..as you criticize (not sure if this is the correct word 🙂 an upper income young girl who is the picture of the American dream and family! I applaude your boldness to go where few would go and your higher level of thinking that allowed you to ponder if e.smart were a person of color would she be defended so staunchly. Very few people ever arrive at this level of thinking.
Jasmine mentioned anger …… but she will not be able to identify or use certain cognitive skills to understand how a victim of sexual assault is left with an indellible amount of righteous indignation or good anger. If people are not angry at some of the injustices that are occuring in our world, People are asleep! I must feel something when injustices occur and not just be passive. It means I am alive and empathetic and moved by injustice of any kind, expecially sexual abuse. Many people who defend E. Smart and dont look beneath the surIace are a Rebel without a cause meaning that the person has no higher cause he or she espouses but is just generally rebellious due to troubled inner feelings or someone who is simply rebellious by nature, rather than someone who is moved to rebel because of some compelling reason. I am rambling on…I will stop!
Again, I commend your boldness to think outside of the box and go where few people rarely will go. Most today are still voting for a particular party and not based on the content of the person.
Lull DT,
Thank you for thinking outside the box of expected norms. 🙂
Criticism and negative comments on my Blog open the dialogue for real discussion and help those who read silently to get a different view, and to get answers to questions they had about my opinions. I would rather be in a discussion with people who disagree with me, than to try and have a conversation or relationship with people who have no opinion at all, or who are wishy-wahsy, or who would rather talk about sports and superficial crap.
“People are asleep! I must feel something when injustices occur and not just be passive. It means I am alive and empathetic and moved by injustice of any kind, especially sexual abuse.”
Hooray! I love your soul!
I would rather be in a discussion with people who disagree with me, than to try and have a conversation or relationship with people who have no opinion at all, or who are wishy-wahsy, or who would rather talk about sports and superficial crap.
The above comment helps me understand why you respond to the critical comments now! I am slowly emerging into a person who feels similar to this. I am wondering if i will be able to find anyone to talk to. I have taken to blogging to be able to have some meaningful or Altruistic conversations based on selflessness which is the principle or practice of concern for the welfare of others. Oh Well…….I will join another support group. I usually find like minded crusaders there.
Lull DT,
My therapist, and the therapy I have, has helped me to understand that the ultimate goal of every human should be altruism.
“Oh Well…….I will join another support group. I usually find like minded crusaders there.”
I am confused over this comment. Did you become disappointed in something I said? Altruism involves speaking the truth to people and defending those who cannot defend themselves (with words sometimes). Altruism is NOT being a people-pleaser or “kind” or “nice” all the time.
I am a crusader of altruism. I am not sure what you are looking for in another support group. Maybe I misunderstood your comment?
Alethea
Oh Well…….I will join another support group. I usually find like minded crusaders there.
I am confused over this comment. Did you become disappointed in something I said?
No. Everything you said was fine. The comment means that I have current friends that do not think as passionately as I do about some subjects. I like to meet new friends in support groups or groups that deal with emotional health or healing. I usually meet people who are real, and not afraid to share their weaknesses there. My current group of friends are not like this. The comment was not in reference to anything you said.
Jasmine,
“No matter what she is a victim and no one should judge her.”
I was once a victim, and suffered a lot worse than Elizabeth Smart, and I am judged all the time. If Elizabeth is as strong as she says she is, and if all of her accounts of her experience are all true, then she would wave her hand at me and not be bothered and not be affected.
I was angry in the past with her statements, arrogance, lack of any real explanation of how exactly she recovered so quickly and how she expects others to do the same. I have also been very suspicious of the entire story, the drugs they gave Wanda Barzee in jail, and how the “kidnapping” truly happened.
But I wrote those articles when I was angry. Righteous anger is a good thing sometimes. I am not going to apologize for how she made me feel at the time. I don’t walk around harboring anger for her now, but I also stand by the way I felt at the time I wrote those articles.
Please stop trying to force me into compassion for her. She says she is fine, so what do I need to have compassion for her about? Do you know who deserves and gets my compassion? All of the children and adults out there who listen to Elizabeth Smart’s advice and who can’t understand what is wrong with them because they cannot get rid of their suffering in their psychosomatic symptoms, PTSD, severe depression, nightmares, insomnia, and all the other issues that Elizabeth has glossed over and seems to have completely neglected to inform herself about. Thankfully, I have a therapist who saved my life from all of that, but millions of others are not so lucky.
I also feel deep compassion for Richard Ricci, and his family, because he probably DIED because of their false accusations, and to my knowledge, they never apologized to him or his family.
I can see that we’re just at an impasse. I understand what you’re saying but I just can’t stop feeling compassion for her, the same compassion I feel for all victims. I don’t judge her and I don’t judge you either because you have a right to your feelings and it’s clear that the statements she made truly hurt you. I just hope that one day you can let go of your anger because while anger can serve as a motivator it can be an inhibitor as well. Good luck to you in the future
I did not say I am still angry. I thought I was making that clear.
Jasmine, I take it back. I re-read my comment, and I WAS indeed making my self clear. I think you read my comments only with your mind, not your eyes.
When I made my last comment I wasn’t speaking specifically about Elizabeth but more in general. When I first wrote I was just trying to tell you my opinion I didn’t mean to offend you or disrespect yours but somehow I think you thought i was attacking you or judging you when I wasn’t. Sarcasm and apologizing for not thinking the way others do reads as angry to me, and I felt like i had to be on the defensive for my opinion which at the heart I think you agree with (that victims shouldn’t be judged).
So you think that my anger is in need of repair? That I need to “one day let go?” See, now you are judging me. You have no idea what is in my heart and mind. You can say what affects you personally, or defend Elizabeth Smart if you like, but don’t be such a hypocrite.
You say victims should not be judged, but you have judged my heart. Don’t be a hypocrite.
You say victims should not be judged, but if someone, ANYONE, goes off, then they ought to be told they are off. To me, and MANY OTHERS, Elizabeth is OFF in her council.
I always wonder if Elizabeth had been a poor black teenage girl, who came from a not so great neighborhood, with no religious background, and who was homely….I always wonder, would so many people be defending her, and would so many people have accepted her story at face-value?
For some reason the website won’t allow me to direct my reply to your message so i’ll write it up here.
You’re twisting my words around. I never said anything about what you feel in your heart and mind being in need of repair. All I meant was that you shouldn’t get angry that someone has an opinion that’s different than yours. I never said anything offensive about you or what you went through. I didn’t curse you out or call you names. I was being sincere the entire time and you responded to my sincerity with sarcasm and by later calling me a hypocrite. I tried to end the discussion earlier to just agree to disagree but you chose to continue it. I don’t like being in circular arguments. If I feel like the discussion isn’t going anywhere than I don’t want to continue it.
As for your last part you’re way off base because I’m Hatian and Puerto Rican so my sympathy for her isn’t because she’s a poor little white girl. I don’t judge anyone. I wasn’t physically or sexually abused but growing up I was made to feel worthless and had my imperfections thrown in my face all the time. I began to go out of my way to be perfect and fear rejection so violently and now suffer with avoidant personality disorder and probably won’t ever be able to get married or have a true friendship because I cannot stop pushing people away from me. No one knows this but my therapist though, I’m a great actress. You said earlier that your trauma was worse than Elizabeths but the truth is pain is pain and it demands to be felt. I feel mine everyday when I start having panic attacks on the bus because someone gives me a look or when a group of girls giggle to themselves and I think that they’re laughing at me. Or when I get home and cry and cry but have no one to talk to, My pain isn’t less or greater than yours. It demands to be felt.
My comment to this has been moved to the top of comments page.
But I wrote those articles when I was angry. Righteous anger is a good thing sometimes. I am not going to apologize for how she made me feel at the time. (sorry to correct you but this is your strong suit….no one can make a person feel anything. we feel what we feel because we do. I was told that day one in group therapy and i am sure you already know it. I am sure the blog is tedious and hard to say everything 100% correct.) I don’t walk around harboring anger for her now, but I also stand by the way I felt at the time I wrote those articles.
The human mind is so delicate and fragile. I am not sure what the point is as far discussing with these people who disagree with this article on e. smart. A person sexually abused is like a person with a computer chip that has got a virus and some glitches. Many of them can be fixed but often times we can not just look inside the computer (or our brain) and understand it’s every motive or why we say and do the things we do. It can be complex and I dont think it is good to have it scrutinized by these people who do not understand sexual assault……. day in and day out. Perhaps no response to them at all would be best. The responses could continue for years due to the nature of the headline and how shocking it sounds and insensitive, although that is not your intention, but to help and be a voice for others who have been hurt by e.smart comments. I am Just a reader of blogs and no offense intended. The blog is good and many articles. Just commenting on how oftentimes I want to be a crusader and stand up for the rights of others, but I do not want people to step on my toes and break them day in and out! I need a break from all that from time to time …..especially when I live in a world where I am going to be condemned ipso facto or by the very nature of the deed!
Dear Star,
This blog is tedious and hard to say everything 100% correct! Thank you. It’s difficult to get everything out that needs to come out of me –to explain EXACTLY what I am trying to convey. Sometimes my readers help me with that, but the original articles often leave out important points that only cross my mind much later, or when someone mentions them. Thank you for pointing that out!
I have often used the mind/computer analogy. When severe child sexual abuse gets into the mind, like a computer virus, the person will never function properly, like the computer will never function properly, until the virus is removed.
Many people think the virus of child sexual abuse cannot be fully removed, but it can! –but certainly not in 72 hours…and my point with Elizabeth Smart is that you can tell an abuse survivor any positive affirmations you like, but it is like trying to type what you want into the infected computer’s key board and expect the computer to operate functionally. It’s impossible.
Yes, the responses could continue for years, but I don’t respond to try and change their mind or to convince them. I respond to defend truth so those who silently read the comments are happy inside that someone is defending how they feel.
You wrote: “I want to be a crusader and stand up for the rights of others, but I do not want people to step on my toes and break them day in and out! I need a break from all that from time to time …..especially when I live in a world where I am going to be condemned ipso facto or by the very nature of the deed!”
I am not sure by what you mean with the toes comment, but the rest is very important. We live in a world where the majority of people are not going to be a crusader and stand up for the rights of the innocent, and a world where we MUST continue to do so in the face of being condemned. I get tired of it all. I get tired of looking around at most everyone else not doing anything, and tired of saying to myself “really? really, you aren’t going to help?” But my soul must keep moving forward to help others, or animals…..or I do not help my soul at all.
>I have often used the mind/computer analogy. When severe child sexual abuse gets into the mind, like a computer virus, the person will never function properly, like the computer will never function properly, until the virus is removed.
Alethea your comments above have left me cringing in a good way. I attempted to do the computer analogy but you took it to a profoundly higher level of understanding for me and the readers of your blog. Amazing gift you have with words. I will remember your comment above and use it to motivate me to keep going as far as having this virus removed from my mind. I don’t even know who I am until this virus is removed. I have been a false self for years and years.
>my point with Elizabeth Smart is that you can tell an abuse survivor any positive affirmations you like, but it is like trying to type what you want into the infected computer’s key board and expect the computer to operate functionally. It’s impossible.
I love the above comment. It really lets me know why you speak out against E.Smart’s way of dealing with sexual abuse. She can actually harm people if they take her advice and they will not operate functionally.
>Yes, the responses could continue for years, but I don’t respond to try and change their mind or to convince them. I respond to defend truth so those who silently read the comments are happy inside that someone is defending how they feel.
Wow! Alethea this comment above helped me to understand why you do what you do as far as the e.smart comments you post in response to bloggers. I am so happy to hear that you do not respond to try and change their mind or convince them….. but to defend truth, so that those who read your blog are happy inside that someone defends how they feel.
Well I must say that my inner child is super happy that you are doing what you do. No one has ever defended how I feel. 🙂
I hope to see my mind progress to a level of healing that yours has. I was concerned that you were operating in codependency which is to try and control another person thoughts or behavior. I was not critical in my assumption, just being caring. I felt that after all you had been through that you needed peace, freedom and a great life. I was not sure if the e.smart negative reviewers were infringing upon this. However, you are a very healthy person.
>We live in a world where the majority of people are not going to be a crusader and stand up for the rights of the innocent, and a world where we MUST continue to do so in the face of being condemned. I get tired of it all. I get tired of looking around at most everyone else not doing anything, and tired of saying to myself “really? really, you aren’t going to help?” But my soul must keep moving forward to help others, or animals…..or I do not help my soul at all.
Okay……the comment above has moved me tremendously. I do not know how it happens…… but facing sexual abuse is changing me in some very good ways. I see that this has happened to you as well. I have not even scratched the surface as far as being healed of sexual abuse …..so i am excited to see myself evolve due to seeing how you are changed into a very beautiful compassionate empathetic person inside out. I was not sure what your true personality was due to I have read mostly e.smart articles on your blog. I was not sure if you were bitter and angry or not. It would be understandable if you were. However, you are not…..you have a very kind caring compassionate loving soul. I am so elated that you were not diminished by those who sought to abuse you………so elated and so happy for your happy inner child. 🙂 I am very empowered by your story of triumph. I hope you write a book.
I agree with you as far as most people will not stand up for the rights of the innocent in the face of being condemned. It is hard for me to accept this fact but it is true. I am almost brought to tears thinking about this comment because no one stood up for my rights.
I wondered if you got tired…… while being a crusader. I am so happy you have found the right balance to rest, and keep going on, and as a result of your own benevolence or disposition to do good, your own soul is helped. You have inspired me to continue my journey to the other side. I want to see my real self or the person in the mirror I am going to evolve into. I am already looking in the mirror and seeing a different person looking back at me and it is surreal. However, I have a lot ….a whole lot further to go. I salute your efforts and all that you do to encourage those of us who have been sexually abused.
My dad sexually abused my sister from 10-16. I witnessed him sexually abuse her in our bedroom one night. I went back to sleep like it was normal….meaning I was just a kid (5 or 6 years old). I have 4 sexual assaults under the age of 19 to deal with and repressed memories. I must also deal with several incidents of sexual harrassment or inappropriate touching. I saw four counselors who did more harm than good. I have not found the courage to venture out again! Many professionals do not understand sexual abuse.
Star, I want you to know that I am not ignoring this comment. I am going through some major transformative healing right now, and taking some time to heal and rest my mind and soul. I am going to reply soon.
Thank you 🙂
Hi Star. I am so sorry it has taken me so long to get back to everyone. I have been doing some very deep healing. The kind of therapy I do is not superficial in any way. It gets to deeply rooted repressed emotions, and releasing those emotions is the only way to truly heal at a profound level. But it also takes work and sometimes, depending on the depth of the wound, some recovery time.
The kind of therapy I do is like surgery of the mind, or surgery without a knife. I mentally remove the infected programming and release the deep emotional wounds, but I sometimes need to rest afterwards, as if I was on a surgery table. After one has surgery, they should not just jump off the table and get right back to work.
You are so right Star, my inner child is beyond happy when I speak up and defend truth, or merely speak my mind without fear. I was threatened with death so many times as a child, by both parents, and choked by my mother, so every time I speak up or speak out, I am defying them.
I would never in a million years try and control another person thoughts or behavior. I was forced as a child, and have NEVER wanted to forced ANYONE into anything. But defending truth, and my own opinion is very healing for me. If the other person gets my truth, great. If not, that’s fine too. The important thing is that I speak it. Silence is complicity or approval. I was silent for over three decades. I won’t do that to myself anymore.
>>We live in a world where the majority of people are not going to be a crusader and stand up for the rights of the innocent, and a world where we MUST continue to do so in the face of being condemned. I get tired of it all. I get tired of looking around at most everyone else not doing anything, and tired of saying to myself “really? really, you aren’t going to help?” But my soul must keep moving forward to help others, or animals…..or I do not help my soul at all.>>
“Okay……the comment above has moved me tremendously.”
What a beautiful thing 🙂
Thank you for your kind words. I was always a compassionate, empathetic person, but I was so sick for so long, and the previously repressed rage and anger did not show up in my life in full, until I began to heal. So it took many years of deep healing to weed out the anger and rage.
I have nothing to be bitter about. NOTHING. God has given me the miracle of total healing of mind and body, and the gift of liberating my soul from much dysfunction/programming/destructive beliefs etc.
I have almost finished my book, but I was side-tracked with some unexpected healing that had to be done. I hope to get my book finished and published in the next two months. That is my goal, but like John Lennon said, “life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans.” So we’ll see. It is in the Hands of the Divine Infinite Spirit.
My heart swells with gratitude that something I have said has inspired you to continue your journey to the other side.
Keep looking in that mirror and envision the change you want to become. Every day, sit quietly, take three deep breaths, and imagine yourself healing. Then thank the Divine Creator for that healing…thank God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind, and you will begin that healing.
I saw a psychologist and a psychiatrist before finding my therapist. Neither of the first two helped me one bit. After my first session with my current therapist, I felt hope for the first time in my life, and she literally saved my life. If you ever want her number, she does the therapy via telephone. She is amazing.
All my best,
Alethea
>>>You are so right Star, my inner child is beyond happy when I speak up and defend truth, or merely speak my mind without fear. I was threatened with death so many times as a child, by both parents, and choked by my mother, so every time I speak up or speak out, I am defying them.
Gee Alethea, Thanks for explaining why you speak up and out. I am a why person and It is just the way I am put together. In other words, I would ask myself, Why does Alethea speak out with the E.Smart articles so adamantly or impervious to pleas, appeals, or reason; stubbornly unyielding. I pondered it one day and I thought, maybe it is your way of doing what you could not do when you were abused as a child by your parents. I like the word withstand which means to stand up against : oppose with firm determination; especially: to resist successfully! I could not do this with any of the people who sexually abused me because I was a child. Thank You! My inner child is very happy you are doing what she could not do as a child ……and for good reasons!
>>>I was threatened with death so many times as a child, by both parents, and choked by my mother, so every time I speak up or speak out, I am defying them.
The above comment does a couple of things to my heart and soul. #1 I feel angry that you had to endure such inhumane treatment. All little girls are a princess and I feel that we should be treated as such. It appears that I have encountered numerous people who have tried to snuff this out of me. #2 I am so elated because I see that major healing is possible! You have endured and triumphed over the unimaginable and it is a testimony of how resilient and capable of tremendous healing our human spirit is. You are such an inspiration!
I have read that sexual abuse by a family member or parent is some of the more recondite (difficult or impossible for one of ordinary understanding or knowledge to comprehend) sexual abuse because it defies all logic. I don’t want to diminish anyone else’s suffering by saying this type of abuse is more bewildering. I just want to communicate to you that I am cognizant meaning aware of, and conscious of this fact. I am also aware that this fact means great benefits to the person who does make the journey from beyond. The beautiful gifts of encouragement you are sharing with your bloggers (ME) are a major testament to this fact. Thanks for sharing your amazing journey from beyond, with all your bloggers. Take Care. 🙂
p.s. I am so glad to hear you mention repressed emotions coming out to heal and it is like surgery. This is the type of therapy I am undergoing. I feel so weak and like I just jumped out of my body and back in……after this type of healing. It is amazing! Your recovery is encouraging me to know what is ahead… . thanks.
>Many people think the virus of child sexual abuse cannot be fully removed, but it can!
This comment really resonated with me. I saw four counselors who seemed to feel that my sexual abuse detailed history was startling and unable to be fully healed. You have once again done what you do best. You have voiced exactly what others tell people who have been sexually abused and trampled all over it ……as false! Sexual abuse can indeed be healed! Thank You So Much for all you do Alethea!
p.s. I dont believe the counselors I saw meant to harm me. I just dont think they had the experience or expertise to know how to heal sexual abuse! Once counselor i saw told me that some of one perpetrators actions toward me was love or lovng. He said this due to my lack of love from a mother or father. He felt that I needed to keep some love in my heart due to my severe lack of love as a child. Just thought I would give one example. I know this Psychiatrist advice is ridiculous.
You wrote: “I want to be a crusader and stand up for the rights of others, but I do not want people to step on my toes and break them day in and out! I need a break from all that from time to time …..especially when I live in a world where I am going to be condemned ipso facto or by the very nature of the deed!”
I am not sure by what you mean with the toes comment, but the rest is very important.
The toes comment was personal or more about me. I am still very fragile due to my history of parental neglect and abuse…..including sexual abuse by others outside of my home. I read many of the E.Smart comments that people wrote to you. I personally felt that due to the harshness of the comments, it would be akin to having my toes stepped on and broken daily if I were to have people speak to my fragile mind like they do on your blog. I have a sensitive spirit which means I am easily hurt by offensive remarks. This may change after I undergo more healing of my inner child. I will just have to wait and see. Anyhow……I am glad you have the boundaries, resilience or strength to address the comments regards E.Smart. I look forward to an increase in fortitude or strength or firmness of mind as I recover from child sexual abuse. Good Day! p.s. I am glad your toes are not being stepped on and broken day in and day out. 🙂
Star, I was once so fragile and sensitive that someone could look at me a little weird and I would start to cry. I am still a sensitive person in the manner of loving animals, nature, and want to help anyone in need. I also react to too much neon lights, partying noise, and unnatural environments with lots of cars and freeways, but I do not react to people condemning, criticizing, or calling me names. I instead, use their comments or ugliness as a spring board for good.
Althea, you make numerous valid points, some of which can be lost in the animosity of the words. I smiled (not in a mean way), when you called me a hypocrite before, I had noted you seem to do that a lot. And you’ve just used the term towards me again. Actually I’m not a hypocrite although I am open to the point if view that you see me as such.
To explain from my perspective, Elizabeth Smart was a victim. She did not choose this. Even if your opinion of events werethe reality (which I see no evidence for) she would still be a victim. In fact, in your scenario I would imagine the trauma would have been even greater because of the degree/potential for self blame.
Having experienced what she did, and being at the centre of a media frenzy, she has tried to make something positive come from it. Telling people that things can be ok after trauma. Is she in denial? I don’t know, I’ve never met her. I hope she has processed it as well as she appears to have. Some people can. That’s lucky. It doesn’t mean that she’s a better person than someone who goes through trauma and remains traumatised.
I actually agree with you that it’s ok for you and others to say that you feel her words undermine your suffering (I’m paraphrasing), because if that’s how you feel well that’s how you feel and yes you are entitled to share that. But then, maybe take it a step further and ask why it makes you angry. I accept that you’ve said you are not jealous of her recovery, so why is this young woman who is apparently doing well and seemingly altruistically wants to use her experience for good, making you so angry. For me, objectively, I see her as a positive voice, but not a saint. Her way isn’t the right way. It was the right way for her.
When I experienced a severe acute trauma I was put in touch with someone who had been through it before, and was ok. I asked her “how are you still breathing”, because I couldn’t believe that there was a future after it. And she told me that you do get through and basically told me what worked for her. This gave me a glimmer of hope. Our recoveries were not the same, but she helped me believe that I could get through. And I am grateful for that.
So I suppose I’m saying, perhaps although you (and others) feel animosity to Miss Smart, maybe others find her supportive, comforting and enable a feeling of hope for the future. You are right it is okay to feel angry if that’s how you feel, but I’m not sure it’s ok to question her experiences (as in, call her a liar) particularly as her abusers basically admitted to it anyway….they pled not guilty due to insanity, not because they hadn’t done it. That said, as I mentioned before, you are allowing others (like me) to disagree on your blog which give it more balance, as opposed to presenting your ideas as fact.
So in short, while my initial reaction was that this was an attack on Miss Smart and grossly unfair, I now (kinda) see your point in terms of your right to express your feelings on it, even though I strongly disagree with your views about her.
Thank you for allowing me to post on your blog despite our different points of view.
Anna
You see Anna, you call it “animosity” in my words, which would be true if you mean my strong dislike of her words, her version of events, and her parent’s actions. If you mean that I wish her ill-will or carry a deep-seated ill-will for her, then YOU would be incorrect in your judgement of me. You say you are not a hypocrite, but you keep doing it. I have pointed a finger at Elizabeth Smart, and you have pointed your finger at me. That my dear, is being a hypocrite. It’s all subjective and relative. You think you are right, I think I am right, and Elizabeth thinks she is right. Who is ‘right or wrong?’ in all of this? It’s all relative. Only I can know my heart, only you can know yours, and only Elizabeth knows her heart and what really happened. But if she is going to speak out PUBLICLY for MILLIONS of survivors and victims of abuse, many who have suffered far worse than what she endured, then she needs to be prepared to be called on things by those survivors –thing that are not okay in the experiences of those people.
It is the self-blame, and shame that I believe she is, in part, hiding from. I feel she probably experienced pleasure with her captor, and probably felt married to him in sense, and probably felt an emotional love for him. And if that is the case, then she is not being honest with herself and not being honest with other victims. If that is the case, then she is repressing true shame and pain that will indeed one day surface when life’s stresses get bad and her body ages.
“so why is this young woman who is apparently doing well and seemingly altruistically wants to use her experience for good, making you so angry.”
I’m sorry, but if you still have to ask me this after all my articles on Elizabeth Smart and after all my comments on those articles…then you are not reading what I am saying..not comprehending me, or you do not want to understand what I have said.
But I am glad that we have found a somewhat middle ground, in that you “kinda” see my point in terms of my right to express myself.
But that you strongly disagree is erroneous. Maybe I am right, and maybe you are wrong. Maybe you are right, and I am wrong. Who is the measure of truth here? You? No. Me? No. All of our personal truths are relative to the matter and all of our opinions, and expression of our opinions, are our right to do.
Ok…..there are a few things wrong with this blog, and I mean that with no disrespect to the writer. However, please think about the fact that Ms Smart is a real person, who became headline news as a kid, having gone through some dreadful experiences. She didn’t ask to be known around the world. She was a child. She didn’t have the same experiences as the writer of this blog. She is a different person from the writer of this blog. How she has processed and lives with her experiences is very much about her intrinsic self, and the support she both perceives and receives from those around her. There is no “right way” to deal with any type of trauma. Nobody actually consciously chooses how they deal with it. It’s a product of personality, previous coping mechanisms, cultural norms, learnt and core beliefs etc etc etc. I am terribly sorry for the abuse the writer of this blog has experienced. It’s horrendous. It was at the hands of those who “should” have been loving and protecting you, from a very young age. It was not your fault. At all. No matter what, it was never your fault. But. That doesn’t give you the right to villify another young woman who had a vert different experience from you, and who isn’t you. Her experience and her way of coping is no less valid than yours. You mention her being in denial, I have no idea whether she is or not and frankly it’s none of my business, but you miss the whole point of denial. Denial isn’t conscious. If a person is in denial they don’t know they are. Ergo they still speak from an honest perspective. People in denial aren’t lying, they are telling their truth. But they are wrong.
As I said, I am terribly sorry for what you as an individual have suffered and I wish you well. I do advise that you have a think about why you are so acrimonious towards Elizabeth Smart. She was a kid who went through a dreadful experience whatever your opinion on the INS an outs of it. She didnt hurt you. Someone else did that. Elizabeth isn’t speaking for you, any more than you can speak for other victims. Elizabeth speaks for herself. And she is allowed to.
Anna, you are such a hypocrite.
You say, there are “a few things wrong with this blog,” and get on me for “vilifying” Elizabeth Smart (a term that in no way accurately describes my criticism of her). You say, “it’s none of my business” (then you make me your business). You tell me that Elizabeth is speaking for herself and is allowed to when I also have a God-given and United States Constitutional right to do so, as do you.
I also have a moral right to voice myself when I see a public figure saying things about severe rape, torture, and trauma that are ridiculous.
You are accusing me and criticizing me in the exact way that I have voiced my opinion about Elizabeth Smart. I have a right to voice myself, just as she does, and just as you did here. So stop being a hypocrite.
She has indeed spoken for other victims and survivors by trying to tell them to ‘move on,’ ‘get over it.’ Do you know that this attitude is exactly what is put out to victims and survivors by the perpetrators, their accomplices, and by those in society who do not want to hear about child sexual abuse? Do you know that this “advice” is told to victims and survivors by those who don’t want to hear about the terrible after-effects of child sexual abuse?
“She didn’t ask to be known around the world.”
I didn’t see a gun to her head when she made all those personal appearances, TV interviews, and public speeches.
“I am terribly sorry for the abuse the writer of this blog has experienced. It’s horrendous. It was at the hands of those who “should” have been loving and protecting you, from a very young age. It was not your fault. At all. No matter what, it was never your fault.”
I don’t need your silly fluff. I have worked long and hard on myself, and know these things full well. I also don’t buy your attempt at trying to soften your criticism of me. Quit being a people-pleaser and just express what you feel. It’s what Elizabeth did, and it’s what I did. And she has indeed hurt some people; because every time she tries to put forth the notion that a 72-hour recovery is possible, and every time she behaves arrogantly about her magical healing, she causes quite a number of abuse victims and survivors to think there is something defective about themselves, or to feel unworthy of God’s love and healing.
I don’t like her attitude, I don’t like her parents, and I think you have put her on a pedestal and, for some reason, think you need to defend her.
Well I am defending those who have felt like I do about her, and who were unable to find the courage to say it. I have no fear in voicing my opinion about her, and stand up for those who are not strong enough to do so.
Althea I am sorry you see my words as “silly fluff” but am of the firm opinion, for very good reason, that the illogical and undeserved guilt felt by victims is fundamental in inhibiting recovery, in all types of trauma. I am very glad to hear that you “don’t need to hear it”, but others are not as fortunate as you and do need to hear it. In terms of “people pleasing”, I take your point to a degree, but don’t see trying to ensure that someone’s perspective is acknowledged, even when disagreeing, as people-pleasing. In my opinion it’s an important part of constructive discussion.
I am not vilifying you. I do think, whether you agree or not, that you are vilifying Elizabeth Smart. Your assumption that I have placed her on a pedestal, is just that, an assumption, not truth. Your comment that “you didn’t see a gun to her head” in terms of the press coverage tells me that you have never experienced press intrusion. For which I am glad. The broadcasting of the innermost details of people’s lives causes significant trauma in itself. Even for this who seek it. Every comment made is taken at face value, even glib ones, and than analysed to the nth degree as to “what it means”. We are all, as humans full of unconscious contradictions. I have worked with victims of abuse all of my adult life. I have also been a victim of abuse (although importantly not as a child). I have seen people experience the whole spectrum of reactions and responses. I have worked with people who like miss Smart, are able to be very pragmatic about their experiences. But her “feeling Ok” does not negate the experience of those who don’t feel ok, and continue to suffer severe distress with a massive impact on functioning. Those people are no less deserving of support, they are not “lesser people” because they need support. They are different.
I have read much of your blog over the last few days….I think on balance your work is positive in that it raises awareness of an important subject, and you talk about what is difficult for some to even acknowledge. My concern at what I perceive as “attacking” another victim who frankly doesn’t owe you or anyone else anything, is ameliorated by the fact that you do allow critique, allowing your readers to see more than just your opinion, or just those that agree with you, which I respect.
I do believe that your anger towards Ms Smart is misguided and actually unwarranted. Whether you like her parents or not isn’t really relevant in terms of whether it’s ok or not to publically criticise Ms Smart, the individual, with the anger and intensity with which you do.
Regards,
Anna
Anna,
As far as her public comments go, I base myself in what I have read, seen in her mannerisms, and heard her say herself. I also base myself on the facts of the case. In addition, another survivor posted on my Blog recently who saw Elizabeth Smart do a public speaking engagement, and the survivor was very happy that she found my Blog because she agreed with my thoughts and she also added that Elizabeth Smart suggested “retail therapy” and that this disturbed her.
Retail therapy is easy and stress free when you have money like the Smarts do. It is also a lot easier for a person to repress and ‘move on with their life’ with the circumstances of having money, supportive parents, and many of the other advantages that Elizabeth has. Most survivors of trauma, torture, 1,000 rapes, and kidnapping don’t have all of the advantages that Elizabeth has. So it is very easy for her to superficially wave her experience away and to tell others that they can too.
“I do believe that your anger towards Ms Smart is misguided and actually unwarranted.”
Well then, aren’t you the one judging me now? Hmmmmm. Your hypocriticism is showing again. You are judging my anger, where it comes from, how much I have, and whether or not it is “misguided.”
Do not propose to understand the level of affect that a public figure can have on masses of individuals.
“Whether you like her parents or not isn’t really relevant in terms of whether it’s ok or not to publically criticise Ms Smart, the individual, with the anger and intensity with which you do.”
Ms. Smart and her parents are a packaged deal Anna. They have made it that way by their actions and words.
Another thing Anna, there is a law in the Universe called “cause and effect,” or “action-reaction.”
When Elizabeth Smart chose to go public and to try and help other victims and survivors, she set that law into motion. Words have an effect on others. Her words and mannerisms have indeed negatively affected others. My *reaction* was to her words and actions.
My Blog has most definitely caused someone out there to have a negative reaction and to feel disturbed or antagonistic towards me. That’s the risk I take every time I post an article or comment. That is the risk that Elizabeth Smart chose to take. That is the risk that you take when you choose to criticize me for criticizing Elizabeth.
All human beings judge one another every day, in some way, and we all have negative and positive reactions to one another.
I thank God that I have a right to voice my opinion, to express anger, and to do so without being put in prison or killed.
Stop being a hypocrite, and instead of judging my reaction to Elizabeth, maybe look at yourself and figure out what it is that you truly find so horrible about someone having a negative reaction to Miss Smart. Or maybe you need to examine the fact that, contrary to YOUR opinion, Elizabeth’s demeanor and advice has hurt some people very much.
But don’t expect me to change my opinion or back down to you. I am, thank God, not a person to follow crowds, or to placate, or to acquiesce to anyone.
So, if Elizabeth broke down almost everyday, unable to show her face in large crowds, and show sever trauma, and anxiety, people would tell her to “try and move on with her life”. I have seen soldiers who seen traumatic experiance in the war in Iraq, but yet they come back with no need of counceling. It is up to the person as to how they handle their grief and experiances. I think you need to worry about something else more valid. If it makes you feel any better, maybe you can set up a meeting with Elizabeth and ask why she doesnt handle grief and trauma the exact same way you do.
What on earth does “no need of counseling” mean exactly? It means nothing.
Do you know how many war veterans come back and feel they have “no need of counseling” and then they end up killing their families, or themselves?
I agree and disagree.A 14 year old is a child.The brain development of a 14 year old is that of a child not at an age of consent due to brain development.I mean science.
Lets say that she fell in love with this sicko and she wanted to go.
That is rape never the less.Its statutory rape.Which many child advocates call just rape, because that is what it is.It does Not matter how the child may have seen it.Or if they consented or beg for it.
Where i totally agree with you is that i too noticed something very strange about Ms Smart.She has that look of dissociation i have seen in many including myself for many years.
There is something very ‘wrong’ about the way she speaks about it and it just doesn’t seem genuine.
Maybe her “faith” and her family has her in a state of denial and dissociation that is typical of those who are brainwashed in cults.
In that sense i totally agree with you.But a 14 year old is a child.And even if she had begged for it.It was rape.And if she did not run away from him caused she wanted to stay.It was rape.And he had the power over her through manipulation.She was a child.
Child advocate Andrew Vachss would very much tell you that a 14 year old is a child.And that statutory rape is rape.
“Where i totally agree with you is that i too noticed something very strange about Ms Smart.She has that look of dissociation i have seen in many including myself for many years. There is something very ‘wrong’ about the way she speaks about it and it just doesn’t seem genuine.”
I agree too, however, dissociation is not something one develops at age 14, it begins before the age of 5. It makes me wonder what happened in her FOO if she dissociates as a 14 year old.
Where i totally agree with you is that i too noticed something very strange about Ms Smart.She has that look of dissociation i have seen in many including myself for many years.
I agree with this comment above. It is a look in her eyes that is blank. She is not untouched by this pervert for sure. Her eyes do not have that spark that she did have in pictures before kidnapped. That is sad, i noticed this about my photos after rape. I look dark and my eyes have no life or spark and i look enveloped by sin or evil. It made me sad to look at my photos before and after the sexual assault or rape that was repeated over a year and a half.
No one can be untouched Love. No one. It is scientifically impossible to be untouched by 1,000 rapes, death threats, being tied to a tree, being forced into (and to watch) repugnant sex acts, and removed from your family for nine months. Action/reaction, cause and effect. it is a law in the universe that no one escapes.
A kid dealing with trauma and trying to find a positive aspect to it – and you feel you are qualified to criticize how she handles the situation. Drop the subject and find something else to whine about.. you should be fucking ashamed of yourself.
Dear Jimmy,
72 hour recovery is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE for a person who was raped over 1,000 times, tied to a tree, threatened with death, and kidnapped for nine months. Either Elizabeth Smart was not kidnapped, or she is repressing her trauma and it WILL seriously affect her one day.
Your “feel-good” version of how you want trauma and rape survivors to heal is what is shameful. You should be “fucking ashamed” for being so ignorant.
Different people react differently, if everyone reacted the same the world would be very boring. People deal with things differently thats what makes us unique, what makes us a individual. I believe, that she is trying to help people. Unfortuately she comes across in a condesending way which seems to me to be unintentional. Perception is a funny thing that is, everyone has their perception which is different from the next person. Eyewitness testimony is generally not used because you can take 3 peoples perception of what happened in a crime scne and you may have 3 different stories. I can definelty relate to what the writer is saying but at the same time I can relate to the girl who was raped and kidnapped and is trying to come to terms with it she I beleive is doing it the only way she knows how.
I AM SO sick of people saying smart has come to grips with the trauma the best she knows how. This is not her best! It is a fantasy or an illusion of healing. I just wish she would shut up and stop speaking out from her damaged psyche. She can help no one at all until that psyche is healed. This is true for me and all survivors!
Very true Jane.
For years I maintained family relations including my abuser and only when my mother died and I had him all to myself did I discover how raw the scar really was.
I could hide it and move on and put all my energy into my family, my career, day to day issues and problems but when my mother died, their daughter moved thousands of miles away and my brother was not the nurturing type, I was faced with being his companion on a regular basis.
In five years I collapsed and could not even go to work on my business. I know now I have fibromyalgia, RA, cured thyroid disease and H-pylori but many health challenges made me walk away from a successful real estate business.
The point is she has even begun to face this. Just wait a few decades and the story will change considerably. I think there is shock and trauma delayed response. I had flashbacks everyday and still lived in denial of anything bad coming out of it. It hits but maybe late.
I think so too Cat.
I functioned pretty well for about two decades after the incest stopped. I did have issues with self-worth and could not make friends very well. I was a loner in school and had anger issues. But I did not have any REAL problems or physical issues until I hit age 32. That’s when I came down with severe anxiety/panic attacks, depression, nightmares, suicidal thoughts, reclusiveness, eating disorders, sexual problems, phobias, shingles, and Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome. I also had a whole host of physical symptoms that doctors had no clue about. These things came on suddenly, without any warning, and plagued me for many years until I finally healed from 98% of them. I am still dealing with a few residual problems, but nothing like the hell I used to go through.
I know it sounds strange coming from a stranger on the internet, but my therapist can help you heal from Fibromyalgia. All it takes is a telephone to contact her, and a will to heal. She helped me heal from a severe case of CFIDS. Two CFIDS experts in Los Angeles, told me there is no cure and no treatment for it. They were wrong. The therapy helped me to be relieved of terrible suffering, and I am cured.
Could it be that she enjoyed the attention from Mitchell and the sex she had with him? I get the impression that she was a willing participant who had a troubled relationship with her parents. Once she was found, the best strategy for her was to play along to what the media, the authorities and her parents wanted her to say. Had she admitted to being a willing participant, she would have been torn apart by the media. America loves innocent victims and loves to judge the perceived bad guy: guilty or not, somebody has to bleed…
Spot on Joe. I have always felt that was a very good possibility. She would not be the first, or the last, person to experience this.
Even if she was a willing participant is still statuatory rape which is really rape.The brain of a 14 year old is not at a developmental stage to make adult decisions and give adult consent.
I too believe that she is “odd” for lack of a better word but more like in a state of dissociation, repression, denial and cultlike brainwashing.Yes she is doing a diservice to survivors with her views that are like what society likes to hear.Far from wha recovery really is and how it happens.
I know it is still statutory rape. My article is not a legal argument. It was to address a moral issue, and her responsibility to others. She and her family put herself in the spotlight. She has a duty to be honest with everyone.
I’m just sayin that statutory rape has the same damaging effects that rape does in the long term.Because the brain of a 14 year old is not developed a 14 year ol is very much a child.Its just science and the reason the law was made.I’m totally with you about the other.
I thought i was the only one that saw the “fakeness” but coming to think about it at her age i was bulimic and very, very dissociated.I had also bought into my baptist upbringing and accepted my role as the scapegoat thinking that was just the way it was.
BUt yeah i wasn’t going on national TV with it….So i hear you on that sense.
I taken some heat in a chat for stating something to the extent about it before.Tha that girl is dissociated and talking smack.
There is certainly a lot of evidence to support the theory that she was a willing participant more than a kidnap victim. I think she voluntarily ran off with him then had begun to get jaded on her big adventure and had played him into getting her back close to her home so she could “let” herself be “rescued”. There are certainly a lot of pictures of her drinking and partying for a kidnap victim that is supposed to be tied to a tree in the wilderness.
Whoever wrote this is such a bitch and people have no right to say this what ever you want say ( judgemental)she is saying might be the truth or not so shut your trap keep your comments to yourself
“so shut your trap keep your comments to yourself”
Ha! One might say the same to you.
You are a hypocrite.
I believe Eliz Smart is a ticking time bomb. I think shes repressing feelings, she appears robotic and like a stepford wife when she talks, almost too perfect. She will break at some point, theres no way to avoid it.
Yep! I agree. Her eyes are so lifeless and sadness is behind them. That is her child within that she is ignoring. I feel so sorry for her child within. Absolulely no one is taking care of her and speaking for her at all. I agree that she will break at some point. Who knows, the guy who kidnapped her may write her a letter or something. Many things could trigger her and cause her to awaken to the truth and begin grieving and or mourning.
first of all let me say, i can see what everybodies point is, and there might be discrepencies, but i think sometimes under the circumstances,it is never best to dwell on them, at least this horrible beast i rotten away in prison and i hope he gets raped 3 to 4 times a day, if i had my way he should have got the death penalty, i saw a video clip today of her father given an inteview it bought a tear to my eye, he said they dont know what happened to there lovely daughter when he was at court he could not comprehend what she has been through with tears in his eyes, if you read between the lines of the staement of elizabeth, it clearly show she says if new wifes where found she had to show the new wifes everything, the defence said like what she said, sexual intercourse and variants, he was not satisfied with abusing her with oral sex but had to sodomise as well i saw another documentt which said she was forced to oral sodomise, my heart goes out to her if these are the things done but when you read between the lines of the staement it seems propable, i tink not by defauly but because of media pressure the family has pushed their daughter this wasy, in my opinion i dont think she has grasped what has happened to her, i thnik she is trying to blank it all out, and i think it is going to come back and haunt her, she has not had counselling, or any help because she has been quite busy university music media and her music i truly hope she finds true happiness away from what happened, but i am fearful it is going to come back to haunt because she has not dealt with it, and i can say i really do feel for what you went through but maybe neber fully i hope you find your happiness elizabeth, because scum like this will face the wrath of god in his due time which is near.
i am in total agreement with the writer of this page, there is no argument this man had sexual relations with this girl,i have studied law and i can see numerous discrepencies in elizabeths statement her mothers and sisters, firstly elizabeth says the alarm system was broking, her mother says no it was not we did not turn it on all the time, surely elizabeth would have known that, secondly it is the time of kidnap elizabeth says between 1 and 2 in morning, her sister syas 3, her dad call the police they arrive at 4, somwhere here lost in transalation, i know rape victims and i can tell you most of them can not cope, what i can not understand why elizabeth has not had counselling or help with people, check out the photo when she is getting in the police car with her dad when she was found, she was smiling is that natural for a rape victim? secondly they seem to have made a celebrity style extravagance releasin a film and book public appearances, sorry it does not abode, either this girl is trying to pretend it never happened, or maybe it was planned,but either way itis going to effect her, it was also strange to see in 2006 elizabeth had a boyfriend, that is two years after her ordeal, i totally believ this creep deserves his sentence if i had my way put them to death they are a disgrace to humanity, also another point to add i have tried to find her medical examination which should have been put into the court, that has not been released, one thing i would like to point out elizabeth claimed this creep bragged about his size of his package, if this is the case elizabeth would have had some extmely larcerations to her genital area if she was a virgin, but there has been no mention of any damage to her body, which can leave a million questions open, if she was sodomised she would have had serious internal tears, again no mention of this, there is also many times she could have run, and to be honest if there was a cop in front of me o would have said yes i am elizabeth because the creep would have not had far to run he would have been caught so the excuse she made about she did everything to please him sexually to protect herself and family i just find that one a little to hard to digest, she would have been well protected by law enforcement, to me there just seems to be something missing, something is not right, i really hope elizabeth does well, but i am not convinced by her testimony, in court she seemed to recount all that happened but when the defense lawyer said something she said, oh thankyou for reminding me it was a long time ago, sorry if you can clarify everything else so clearly, but to be on the spot and you could not remember sorry i dont buy that, whatever other people think that is their view as this is mine but the documents of the court case are on the internet, also check out the interviews she has done in the last 8 years does that look like somebody whos life is in turmoil? to me it is adisgrace especially to all the children and women that have been raped, because i can tell you they never get over it, they live in fear, most of them are on medication for panic attacks and depression, i am sorry but to me in my view elizabeth doe not look like somebody who has endured a horrendous and continuos sexual assault, she does not seem to want to blame them, even her quote to the creep in court seemed weak, her actions have clearly shown she either has not dealt with it or maybe their is more in it than we think, the court staements dont lie, their is no medical history on the rape, which in most cases it is passed to the judge because it is used in sentencing, and again if this creep had a big penis, she will have some major tears to the vagina, and if sodomised she would have bled quite badly, so i am sorry there is to many facts which dont add, and i will at some point email the defense solicitors, as i am not convinced, sorry !! but good luck elizabeth
them are on medication for panic attacks and depression, i am sorry but to me in my view elizabeth doe not look like somebody who has endured a horrendous and continuos sexual assault.
……………..I agree with what you said. I was raped and I have been on medications for years due to the trauma and depression that results. It was not something I could control. It just began coming up and I needed to resort to medications to help me. THis case is very strange and it just does not add up at all. A book and a film is strange. That is capitalizing on unfortunate crime done to their daughter. they seem like fame chasers that are shallow and greedy.
Thanks Jane for thinking outside the expected norms of society. Good for you for not being afraid to say these things.
I totally agree. The Mormon view is quite twisted. They believe that Jesus is the brother of Satan…Their religous doctrine is founded upon lies, to date historians and religious scholars have discredited their religious texts, holy places, etc.
I believe that the family believed Mitchell, an saw him as a God. In their own philosophy .. Mormons believe that God at one point in time was a regular man who ascended to god-Like status, an that they could as well.
I believe that the the Smart family willingly gave their daughter to him in marriage. She was 14 and undefiled, a virgin, (“Mary”) if you will. She was gone 9 months.. She was veiled and wearing large garments? Finding her 9 months later, her father remarked on her chubby appearance. I believe she was pregnant those nine months and to protect her and her families’ honor, the family and Mormon community concocted this tale of kidnapping and daily rape. The child, either boy or girl may emerge 33 years from the day she was found, proclaiming to be born of a virgin…
I actually believe what the girl says, but I think she’s so mentally damaged that we’ll hear of her suicide one day.
I sure hope not! Healing is possible and that would be a permanent solution to a temporary problem. She can heal and recover. It is possible!
First of all, every experience is markedly different. People react to situations differently and those reactions should not be judged. The way a person is raised, their belief system, their background, age, understanding of the situation, etc influence their response to a event. ES was described as 14 going on 11. I surmise that her experience forced her to grow up and over time develop an inner strength that allowed her to overcome the violent experience. While it is remarkable that she bounced back so quickly, we don’t have all the facts. She may have had issues but not wanted to share them with the pubic. In fact, there have been several interviews in which she or her family allude to trauma shown in far off stares, suddenly commenting on or bringing up the abduction. I am sure there is more to her personal hell than she lets on.
Yes, S. Jackson, we know that everyone’s experience is different. We have been commenting about that.
I have every right to “judge” E. Smart’s actions, her comments, and her family’s comments because she, the media, and her parents have said she represents survivors of child sexual abuse, and she and her family have made statements that are harmful to some survivors and victims of child sexual abuse.
If Ms. Smart has gone through some personal hell after being rescued, then she and her family should not say she hasn’t. I don’t like liars or people who try and make themselves look good for self gain, or to make their religion out to be some miraculous faith that people should try because somehow, Elizabeth has ‘miraculously’ been healed.
Serieve – there is a darkness so black pervading this planet that no light can escape, its almost unspeakable. I believe Elizabeth’s parents were part of the ritual abuse. Along with the courts and psychiatrists and who/wharever are part of the equation, we are not getting the full story here, just an superficial endgame. No man comes into my home to take my daughter, just wont happen. This sure sounds a lot like Brice Taylor’s story – http://loveforlife.com.au/content/08/09/24/thanks-memories-truth-has-set-me-free-book-brice-taylor
Ah, so you believe Elizabeth’s parents are ritual abusers? I have theorized much in relation to this case, but never RA. How did you come to your conclusion? Why RA, and not ”just” sexual or physical abuse – is it in part due to Mormonism?
Of course we are getting an endgame. People say that the SLCPD and the FBI found that she was not a runaway, not pregnant, etc. HELLO? The FBI? Police? Courts? CIA? Some of the most corrupt organizations to exist! MK-ULTRA, society?
I doubt some of what the SLCPD has said. A lot, actually.
Ed Smart had said that when the children get up at night, he can hear them. He’s a slight sleeper. He said he was surprised he didn’t hear anything the night of June 5, 2002.
I have wondered from the beginning if he and his wife didn’t hear anything because they KNEW Elizabeth was going to be taken. They had planned it or had advanced knowledge, but let’s say, had not told Elizabeth or any of her siblings.
Home invasion abductions do happen. I am curious to know if you have told your daughter – if you have one, or any child of yours, that if anyone tries to take them from the house to scream or react in some way to alert you.
Most people won’t kill anyone if they want a specific person. The knife or gun is for manipulation of the subject. If Elizabeth was kidnapped the way she says, if she had screamed while she was in the hallway landing near her parents’ bedroom or screamed, period, perhaps her parents may have foiled the abduction. It is understandable why she did not though. I am not sure if I would be unfrozen enough to remember to scream if someone tried to take me from my bed at 14 – or 26, even.
But I’m saying ‘foil,’ coming from the temporary perspective of theorizing that Ed and Lois Smart are not abusive individuals, but loving, concerned parents.
Yeah, I don’t believe that either.
“Ed Smart had said that when the children get up at night, he can hear them. He’s a slight sleeper. He said he was surprised he didn’t hear anything the night of June 5, 2002.”
I still wonder why 14 year-old Elizabeth was sleeping in the same bed with her little sister? I am not implying sexual abuse, but it is WEIRD. Was the little sister in the same bed to keep an eye on Elizabeth? Was there some kind of weird bond between the two?
I also keep forgetting to mention that I read Elizabeth was a fast runner, on the track team? or about to be? I have to find the article, but it seems like she could have run -at age 14- down the hall to her parent’s room, or run down the street, whatever.
“If Elizabeth was kidnapped the way she says, if she had screamed while she was in the hallway landing near her parents’ bedroom or screamed, period, perhaps her parents may have foiled the abduction. It is understandable why she did not though. I am not sure if I would be unfrozen enough to remember to scream if someone tried to take me from my bed at 14 – or 26, even.”
But the thing is that she has always been portrayed, and made statements of being, a very STRONG girl –emotionally and psychologically. She has NEVER acted or sounded victim-like. So I find that this persona, coupled with her age at the time of the “abduction,” indicate that she could, should, and WOULD have fought off Mitchell that night,…..and at the very least, NEVER would have allowed herself to suffer from Stockholm Syndrome, the very theory used to explain why she didn’t run or ask for help all those times that she had the opportunity to do so.
Most young girls SCREECH at the sight of a flying insect. Elizabeth sounds like she was used to it, like a ho hum,sunny day in the park. Just an observation.
Hello Alethea,
I first have to say how saddened I am to hear your personal story. I am so sorry for what you had to endure. It is unimaginable. You certainly are not to blame for the way you mind and body have responded to your abuse, as no victim of abuse is. I believe that it is natural to respond to abuse in the ways that most victims respond. I think it is a protection so that you do not completely lose your sanity. I think that having been survivors of abuse gives us more realistic insight into Elizabeth’s actions than others can appreciate.
I just read your previous article about this subject. Once again, I agree with everything you stated. Elizabeth’s behavior was not and still is not consistent with someone who experienced 9 months of rape and trauma. I think it is ironic that she reassured her parents that she would still be in bed the next morning after her first day home. You would think they would have been the ones reassuring her! She had such confidence that she would still be there the next day. Hmmmm I wonder why?
I never knew that she said in People that she was so glad she came out of this “unscarred.” This girl is unbelievable.
I have read that Elizabeth’s behavior is being attributed to Stockholm syndrome. While I am no expert on this Syndrome, and feel free to correct me where I am wrong, everything I have read about this syndrome supports the fact that she was not suffering from this at all. For example:
When a victim is experiencing Stockholm syndrome they supposedly forms a bond with their captor – Elizabeth always maintained that she despised this man throughout the entire ordeal.
The victim is isolated from other people – Elizabeth was in public all the time.
The victim would usually not be physically harmed – I think rape 4x a day constitutes physical harm
The victim would express adulation for their abductor- Elizabeth consistently stated that she did not like her abductor
The perpetrator would have to commit kind acts- according to Elizabeth the entire ordeal was one horrendous act after another.
I also agree with you on the point that if she was suffering from Stockholm how did she magically become cured from this on the very day that she was discovered? From some accounts I have read that she was at home watching her favorite movie and playing her blessed harp.
In one account she made the statement that during her abduction she “scratched” the word “help” into the partition in the bathroom at the Hard Rock Café. What, did she suddenly lose her ability to speak? I would love to find the location of this store to see if she really did this.
I also 1000x agree with you that Elizabeth is a very strong willed. This aspect of her personality is clearly seen in her interviews. Let me get this straight, this girl has such a strong individual that she is able to dismiss 9 months of deprivation, torture and rape, yet she could not once try to flee her “abductor?” I don’t think so. I also totally agree with you in your description “intelligent and calculating.” Absolutely!
I think that Brian David Mitchell is nuts, but I do not think he is a pedophile or a rapist. I have been wondering why Elizabeth would put such a strong sexual slant on her story. Maybe she had consensual sex with Mitchell and now regrets it. I think she made most of the story up so that she could escape the wrath of her parents for running away. Hey, maybe it got her out of trying to get into Juilliard and disappointing her parents by not being accepted. I have heard that she isn’t even studying the harp in school or music at all for that matter. Interesting for a girl who claimed she was going to Juilliard shortly after her “abduction.” This girl must have been under tremendous pressure from her parents.
I think it will be interesting to see what happens with this case in the future.
Any theories as to why Wanda Barzee pleaded guilty?
Hi Car Lady. Thanks for another wonderful comment.
Thank you for your kind words about my childhood, and about my suffering as an adult.
“I think it is a protection so that you do not completely lose your sanity.”
I absolutely agree. I think that -had I not repressed my trauma and then stored it in my body for so many years- I would have been on drugs, in a mental hospital, or dead from suicide. I certainly would have been a mess and unable to function in society.
“She had such confidence that she would still be there [in her bed] the next day. Hmmmm I wonder why?”
I believe it is because she knew she went willingly the first time. She also gave a statement shortly after being “rescued” that she did not fear her kidnappers ever getting to her again. People who have been severely traumatized and frightened with death with a knife FEAR their perpetrators for a very long time after being rescued. My father died when I was 12 and I continued to fear him long after he was dead. The death threats do not fly out of the subconscious mind like a pesky fly right after the person’s trauma is over.
“In one account she made the statement that during her abduction she “scratched” the word “help” into the partition in the bathroom at the Hard Rock Café…”
I heard that too. So dumb. Sounds made up. If she had her wits about her enough to scratch “help” in the bathroom, she surely would have been able to yell, or even say “help” at one of those restaurants or parties with DOZENS of people to rescue her, people, who were standing right there! I also know that Mitchell was gone for a week or two and Smart was left alone with Barzee. Elizabeth had been an excellent runner, she surely would have been able to escape the weaker Barzee while Mitchell was away for so long.
“Maybe she had consensual sex with Mitchell and now regrets it.”
I also wonder the same thing.
“Any theories as to why Wanda Barzee pleaded guilty?”
All I know is that they kept Barzee pretty drugged up for a long time while she was in custody. God only knows who got to her and what she was told to agree to while under the influence of those prescription drugs. Maybe someone told her the apple-pie version of the story so many times that Barzee began to believe it. Maybe she took a plea deal so that she would not have to face a longer sentence if Elizabeth’s version was believed at trial (a given).
It’s hard to say when things are suppressed and honest face to face interviews with the defendants are non-existent for the public to see. Funny that Smart’s testimony was not visible to the American public. I would have loved to see her on the stand.
Hi Alethea!
I would have loved to have seen her on the stand too!
I was being sarcastic when I said I wonder why she told her parents not to worry about her missing from bed the next morning. I think she said this because she felt guilty, and was trying to reassure them, because she was realizing what mental hell she had put them through. In my opinion, this is one of the most self incriminating statements she made. It was really damning. People respond to trauma of even a much lesser nature than 9 months of rape, torture, etc. For example, if you are driving in your car, and you get hit from behind, your mind naturally responds. You will look over your shoulder at stops, etc. For at least a little while after you will have a degree of fear. This is a natural response. This is why I do not buy that Elizabeth could go through all of that and just go off to the same bed she was supposedly taken from. What a joke
I wasn’t aware that she had made a similar comment shortly after her “rescue.” It doesn’t surprise me though. I need to read more of the earlier information about the case.
I will be interested in seeing how this all plays out in the end. It will probably never go to trial. We’ll see.
Good morning Car Lady,
“People respond to trauma of even a much lesser nature than 9 months of rape, torture, etc. For example, if you are driving in your car, and you get hit from behind, your mind naturally responds. You will look over your shoulder at stops, etc. For at least a little while after you will have a degree of fear. This is a natural response. This is why I do not buy that Elizabeth could go through all of that and just go off to the same bed she was supposedly taken from. What a joke.”
When my dog had an unexpected major seizure (She had unknowingly gotten into a toxic plant on a hike), I was shocked and afraid for her life. It was horrible. It happened in our garage. She survived and is fine now, but it took me a couple of weeks before I could even walk through the garage. I had to go around to the front door to exit the house.
“It will probably never go to trial. We’ll see.”
The trial took place last week, but we never got to see E. SMART on the stand –just court artist drawings of her, and reports from her number one fan on Court TV, Jean Casarez. The American public was not allowed the ability to judge her testimony.
Greetings! Alethea,
You probably really think I’m crazy now! I didn’t even know the trial took place. Ha Ha – shows you how well I am following the story. The last I heard they were having competency hearings. I guess Mitchell was found competent to stand trial. I do not have television service at this time. We were doing some remodeling on our home, and we have to redo the wiring for the television. I saw the recent footage of Elizabeth at my sisters house a few weeks ago.
The public will be able to read the court transcripts, will they not? I did read the transcripts from the competency hearing online.
Keep me posted on any further developments!
Yes, but transcripts don’t pick up mannerisms, tone, emotion, etc., so not as good.
I will keep you posted.
Have a beautiful Thanksgiving.
who knows what kind of medications,drugs and what else she was exposed to…it took 6-7 yrs before trial
I never knew that she said in People that she was so glad she came out of this “unscarred.” This girl is unbelievable.
I think this statement is too bizarre to even come out of someones mouth. But she said it. I was raped repeatedly and I am for sure not unscarred. Perhaps she is wonder woman or something. I have scars galore to recover from. She is a liar.
When a victim is experiencing Stockholm syndrome they supposedly forms a bond with their captor – Elizabeth always maintained that she despised this man throughout the entire ordeal. I FORMED A BOND WITH MY CAPTOR. I SPOKE OF HIM WITH GRAND ADULATION AND LOVE. I DID NOT CEASE THIS UNTIL THE TRANCE OR BRAINWASHING WAS DEPROGRAMMED. i STILL HAVE MORE TO GO. I AM NOT SURE WHY SHE DIDNT FORM A BOND AND SAY GRAND THINGS ABOUT HER CAPTOR. SHE IS LYING!
The victim is isolated from other people – Elizabeth was in public all the time.I WAS ISOLATED.
The victim would usually not be physically harmed – I think rape 4x a day constitutes physical harm I AS PHYSICALLY HARMED OR RAPED AND I DEVELOPED STOCKHOLM SYNDROME, SO I DONT THINK THIS IS CORRECT FOR THE ARGUMENT AGAINST HER STORY. I THINK VIOLENCE THAT IS SEVERE DONE AGAINST THE PERSON MAY NEGATE A PERSON FROM DEVELOPING STOCKHOLM SYNDROME BUT IN SOME CASES A PERSON CAN STILL DEVELOP STOCKHOLM AS FAR AS BEING GRATEFUL THE PERSON DOES NOT KILL THEM.
The victim would express adulation for their abductor- Elizabeth consistently stated that she did not like her abductor. (((((( i expressed the most extreme adulation for my captor. I made him sound like a GOD. It was not until deprogramming began that I stopped speaking so adoring of him.))))))))
The perpetrator would have to commit kind acts- according to Elizabeth the entire ordeal was one horrendous act after another. THE PERPETRATOR DID KIND ACTS WITH OR TOWARD ME. I THOUGHT THIS MEANT HE LOVED ME IN MY CHILD MIND. iT DID NOT. YOUR OBSERVATIONS ARE WONDERFUL. MANY THANKS.
GREAT POINTS Jane. Great points, especially how she said she hated them the whole time, and was out in public many times. She went to parties with them, meals at restaurants, walked the streets….and remember, she did not want to be found. She lied about who she was to the police.
All great points Jane.
Hmmmm…your words here are more repulsive than what I read from the court transcript.
Let me clarify a few things: 1) the “watch and participate in sex acts she found repugnant.” was being forced to give oral sex to this homeless guy who didn’t shower at all, & after seeing how they did it.
2) “tell other victims and survivors of rape and trauma that they can also just wave away their pain and suffering” She said a lot more than that in the booklet the department of justice published with 3 other kidnapping victims. She never said or suggested to simply “wave away” anything.
3) Smart did see several psychiatrist the year she arrived back home. Only most sessions were with her parents present. She also had counseling with her church’s ministers who helped somewhat. Plus she was involved in women’s/victims issues at BYU
4)”“I never wanted to see him again?” Sounds more like a break-up with a boyfriend than trying to get away from a deranged rapist”…. When has there been a victim who wanted to spend more time with the rapist? She spoke what she thought at the time which was to get away somehow -but that sadly it didn’t happen.
I could go on correcting more of your inaccuracies but I’m wondering whether it’s worth the effort.
For example “This doesn’t sound like someone suffering from Stockholm Syndrome” because she wasn’t a Stockholm Syndrome case. She was an abused/terrorized case and reacted accordingly, like many others do especially battered wives. Many teen girls suffer the same at home with their relatives but take years to speak out. Jacy Dugard took more than 20 to speak out. It isn’t easy for them.
Several psychologists can be seen commenting on sites like ksl.com about this and they paint a picture which is dramatically opposite to what you suggest here in this offensive piece of work!
“Hmmmm…your words here are more repulsive than what I read from the court transcript.”
Yes, opinions contrary to the ‘expected norm’ are usually repulsive to those who live in a bubble.
“the “watch and participate in sex acts she found repugnant.” was being forced to give oral sex to this homeless guy who didn’t shower at all, & after seeing how they did it.”
Can you provide a link?
“tell other victims and survivors of rape and trauma that they can also just wave away their pain and suffering” She said a lot more than that in the booklet the department of justice published with 3 other kidnapping victims. She never said or suggested to simply “wave away” anything.”
I am going to try and get a hold of that booklet and read what she said. I will then post my thoughts, which may or may not be contrary to my current opinion.
“Smart did see several psychiatrist the year she arrived back home. Only most sessions were with her parents present.”
Why? Why are they always hovering over her private space?
“She also had counseling with her church’s ministers who helped somewhat.”
This is not real treatment for a trauma victim. It’s merely talking to a church elder about God in relation to life.
“Plus she was involved in women’s/victims issues at BYU”
This tells me nothing.
““I never wanted to see him again?” Sounds more like a break-up with a boyfriend than trying to get away from a deranged rapist”…. When has there been a victim who wanted to spend more time with the rapist?”
Me. I loved my father the rapist. I began to have ‘an affair’ with him as a child and enjoyed having sex with him.
“For example “This doesn’t sound like someone suffering from Stockholm Syndrome” because she wasn’t a Stockholm Syndrome case. She was an abused/terrorized case and reacted accordingly, like many others do especially battered wives.”
Either she was traumatized to the point of not being able to tell anyone standing right next to her in a safe environment, or she was not. If she was, then where is the evidence of her trauma after the fact? if not, then she could have told many people and ended her “nightmare.”
“Many teen girls suffer the same at home with their relatives but take years to speak out. Jacy Dugard took more than 20 to speak out. It isn’t easy for them.”
Jaycee Lee Dugard was a victim for eighteen years, and was taken as a young child, not a teenager. DO NOT try and compare her hell to E. Smart’s nine months as a teen.
“Several psychologists can be seen commenting on sites like ksl.com about this and they paint a picture which is dramatically opposite to what you suggest here in this offensive piece of work!”
My opinion may be offensive to some, but other survivors of abuse have agreed with me. I don’t give much credit to what “several psychologists” say when I have LIVED through rape, confinement, isolation, on-going sexual abuse, and death threats with a knife.
[““I never wanted to see him again?” Sounds more like a break-up with a boyfriend than trying to get away from a deranged rapist”…. When has there been a victim who wanted to spend more time with the rapist?”
Me. I loved my father the rapist. I began to have ‘an affair’ with him as a child and enjoyed having sex with him.]
Wow. I completely respect your honosty and while I disagree with most of what you I would love to see E.Smart say something like this because I have the suspicion it is true. I haven’t read/seen everything about her but I also get the feeling she is/was not traumatized and/or not dealing with such trauma. I also agree that “If Elizabeth Smart was truly a victim of all of this trauma, and of the daily vile and degrading sexual abuse; and if she truly only talked to her parents for therapy and never showed any signs of having suffered trauma, then one day, she will suffer from PTSD, psychosomatic symptoms, fears, phobias, nightmares, sexual dysfunction, and numerous other problems.”
TylDurden,
I have thought about it. I have wondered if she developed a relationship with Mitchell. It is NOT unheard of. If a child can do it, and they often do, then a fourteen year-old can certainly bond with her rapist and begin to have affection, and a form of love for him, and even begin to enjoy the sexual acts.
Thank you for your comment.
Alethea
There’s a lot to go through here and I’ve only just seen this reply. So quickly
-“Can you provide a link?” Its a composite conclusion from a-the transcript of her testimony on sltrib.com and the description of her emotions by ksl.com and deseretnews.com during the testimony. Also a salt lake city writer who lives in the same neighborhood as the Smarts came up with similar conclusions: [http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/elizabeth-smart-verdict] although I personally don’t agree with everything he has written and there are small errors in the details.
-the booklet is free download at the justice department website and was co-written with 3 other kidnapping victims, although most of the publicity went to Smart.
-Why? Why are they always hovering over her private space?” That’s how this family is. the parents are always a part of their kids lives, although they go off to college and Smart went off to study in London and now a missionary in France but when they talk and get together it seems to be a family event. I’m not sure that Elizabeth would’ve wanted to talk to the shrink alone anyway, but not sure. But that’s how they are and how they live. Their choice.
-“Me. I loved my father the rapist” But he was your father in every sense except in this abuse. Its a very different case and situation than a stranger abduction. Every other raped person would want to get away from the rapist unless he’s a family member, eg brother etc.
-“she was traumatized to the point of not being able to tell anyone standing right next to her ” I think it was more of ‘freezing in fear’ than traumatized to the point of not being able to speak. There’s a slight difference. Once that fear stops the person gets back to normal life rather quickly and start talking.
-“DO NOT try and compare her hell to E. Smart’s nine months as a teen” the comparison was in the ‘not talking’ and ‘not running away’ when there was a chance to. But Dugard had the added problem of 2 children to care for, so her case and her situation is very different to Smarts.
-“I don’t give much credit to what “several psychologists” say when I have LIVED through rape” You are entitled to say that and to have that opinion. I suggest thought that your experience was very different to Smart’s who was rather briefly, 9 months, held against her will and treated as a sex slave/wife by this mad man. Once that link was broken then life was different for her in my opinion.
“Its a very different case and situation than a stranger abduction. Every other raped person would want to get away from the rapist unless he’s a family member, eg brother etc.”
If she wanted to get away from him so badly she had NUMEROUS opportunities. And people should not discount the fact that children and teens often experience pleasure with a child sexual abuser who is NOT related to them.
“I think it was more of ‘freezing in fear’ than traumatized to the point of not being able to speak. There’s a slight difference. Once that fear stops the person gets back to normal life rather quickly and start talking.”
When I became an adult and finally found the strength to speak about the death threats and the knife my father put to my throat, I shook, my neurological system quivered, and I experienced rapid heart beat every single time I told someone about the abuse and his threats. Then, that night, I would go through all kinds of physical reactions to having defied his threats earlier in the day. This went on for years afterward. I can now finally tell someone without suffering any physical or emotional reaction, but it took many many intensive therapy sessions to stop the physical reactions.
If she truly was terrorized into silence, then she could NOT have miraculously been able to get back to normal so fast.
“I suggest thought that your experience was very different to Smart’s who was rather briefly, 9 months, held against her will and treated as a sex slave/wife by this mad man. Once that link was broken then life was different for her in my opinion.”
Different experiences, but if what she says is true, she still could not experience a “miracle recovery.” My problem with her is that she has tried to imply that other survivors of trauma, rape and abuse can simply move as she did. She cannot make blanket statements like that.
“I began to have ‘an affair’ with him as a child and enjoyed having sex with him”
By the way I think this is something else that you need to address. If you thought you had an ‘affair’ with him well then there is something there to repent off imo.
The reason that I wrote it as ‘affair’ was to point out that it was not an affair, but child sexual abuse. Maybe I should have used quotation marks instead. I was being facetious.
Thank you, but I have already addressed it within myself.
I dont think she “froze in fear” I think she was beyond that and accepted her fate so much because, it is my opinion that she was born into a sexually abusive situation, from early on. I believe this was what she knew in life. Its wasnt just some crazy dude off the street, I feel she may have been a sex slave early on. That’s why the media parades this canard in front of everybody without the whole truth because the main stream media has their pedophile darlings to hide themselves. These are my observations.
How dare you judge another human being. Did you grow up with the lifestyle and family Elizabeth did? Are your life experiences comparable to Elizabeth’s? From one victim to another, I do not fear being rear-ended in my car; although yes it has happened. How does one compare a dog’s seizure to the hell Elizabeth lived? I see your example as comparing a hang nail to having a limb amputated.
I was actually online looking to Ed Smart for suggestions on locating an emotionally unstable young girl who has been missing for over a month before her parents asked if anyone had heard from her. And I stumble upon this?
The question often presented is it “Nature?” or “Nurture?” I could judge your parent’s and say either way it is their fault you are the way you are. It is not my place to judge or speculate on the psyche of another human being.
I went to school for many years to obtain a Doctorate degree in psychology. Would you like to guess how much money I have made in the 18 years I have been a licensed doctor? Not a penny. I pay my own transportation, travel expenses, trips to movies, or the zoo, meals, all with young trauma victims. In 18 years as a professional I have not observed any two girls respond in kind after coming out of a traumatic situation.
Should I suggest the horrible things these girls endured did not happen, simply because they did not respond the way I did? Or, did my past abuse not occur because I do not respond in a manner such as one of these young girls who has lived through a horrible situation?
Possibly before posting such outrages theories, you should educate yourself. Hold a young girl’s hand as she testifies in court with the accused staring at her. Pace the hospital hallways with parents whose child is in surgery from injuries sustained during and throughout an abduction and the ensuing abuse.
I am sitting here with my dog asleep on my legs, and a parrot on each shoulder, I love my animals; but your reaction to a dog’s seizure is of no comparision to what an abuse victim lives with every day.
After nine months of abuse neither you nor I have been exposed to; would we assure our parents, and more so ourselves, “I will be in my bed in the morning.” Each and every night when I go to bed I tell myself, “Yes, you will be here in the morning.”
I have counseled many young girls on how to face their abuser in court. Often times the only way possible is to emotionally detach from feelings and focus only on the facts while testifying in court.
I suppose many of you would have felt a much better ending to Elizabeth’s abduction would be to see her fall apart in public. Quite possibly that is not in her make-up, her personality, her coping mechanisms. The book doesn’t always end the way you would like it to; this time the victim stood up to the people who did those horrible things to her. Although, Elizabeth still suffers from all that happened to her, she is a strong young lady. She should be commended, not condemed.
I do not question the abuse you endured because it had to of, in some way, played a part in the judgemental person you are today. Tomorrow I have the opportunity of attending a funeral of a 12 year-old girl killed by a person who abducted and did horrible things to her. The reason I will be attending is because the very best friend of the young girl who was killed, will be attending the funeral. The 12 year-old young lady I will be supporting, survived the attacks. On Monday, I will be with this child as she faces one of the men who did this to her and her best friend.
What is the answer when she asks, “Who got it worse, my friend he killed, or me he only thought he killed?” And, although the case has been in the public spotlight, this little girl has yet to have broken down in public.
Too bad for people like you who would like to witness a child endure the emotional breakdowns that most often come with the healing process. However, those times have been seen by her parents and very few other people. And, FYI, the parents of this child, nor the child herself, have told the media about the emotional breakdowns, or the theraputic process she, with her parents at her side, has started. When the time comes, it will be her decision alone, as to when we meet privately, just the two of us, without her parents.
Please do not speculate on what has occurred in the healing process for Elizabeth or her family. More often than not, these things are not public.
I apoligize for the many grammer, typing, etc., errors that I’m sure are in this post. However, I am too upset to go back and read it. Am I upset because of the horrible speculations and misinformation you are putting on a public forum? Am I upset about the funeral I will be attending tomorrow? Am I upset about the upcoming court case of this 12 year-old child who had to grow up way too fast? Am I upset that you have not yet begun to heal from what happened to you? Yes, I am upset with all of the aforementioned. I pray each and every crime victim can heal in their own private manner. You are included in this prayer.
“How dare you judge another human being. Did you grow up with the lifestyle and family Elizabeth did?”
I don’t know who you are addressing here, but if you mean me, Alethea, yes, I did have experiences comparable to Elizabeth Smart.
How dare we, I, judge another human being? How dare we not?
There is a difference between judging someone’s actions and behavior, and judging their soul.
“I could judge your parent’s and say either way it is their fault you are the way you are.”
Go ahead, make a judgment based on what I have said on my Blog about my parents. You may be wrong or right, but it is okay by me.
When a so-called previous victim of rape, torture, and abuse makes public statements that can, do, and have hurt other victims, then it IS MY PLACE to “judge or speculate on the psyche of another human being.”
“I went to school for many years to obtain a Doctorate degree in psychology…In 18 years as a professional I have not observed any two girls respond in kind after coming out of a traumatic situation.”
I don’t give two hoots what kind of a degree you have. When a person (E.Smart and her family) makes continuous public statements that create a lot of problems for some victims of abuse, then that person can and should be scrutinized.
“Although, Elizabeth still suffers from all that happened to her, she is a strong young lady. She should be commended, not condemed.”
Oh? How does she suffer? She and her family say she is fine.
You need to realize that your judgments of my words about Elizabeth ARE a JUDGMENT of me. So you need to look at the hypocritical nature of your beliefs.
“Too bad for people like you who would like to witness a child endure the emotional breakdowns that most often come with the healing process.”
You are incorrect in your personal interpretation of what I would like, or would not like, to see of Elizabeth Smart. Your judgment of me is wrong. My articles do not state this at all. Read all of my articles on her, and with an open mind. You might not be as judgmental of me if you do:
https://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/?s=elizabeth+smart
“Please do not speculate on what has occurred in the healing process for Elizabeth or her family. More often than not, these things are not public.”
No speculation here. I have based my articles on comments, video, reports, etc. made by ELIZABETH and HER FAMILY.
“You are included in this prayer.”
Please do not include me in any prayers. You do not know me, you don’t know what my will is, what I need, or even if we worship the same God. I have not asked for your prayers. Do not pray for me. I do not need your prayers.
“Too bad for people like you who would like to witness a child endure the emotional breakdowns that most often come with the healing process.”
i am not for sure what is meant by this comment but I have been told by my psychiatrist on day one of my recovery that I was having an emotional breakdown due to learning that I was raped as a child. He assured me that it would turn into an emotional breakthrough. I became glad to hear that. He told me I was the first person he had talked to that was happy about the emotional breakthrough. I told him that this would be better than walking around like a zombie for 25 years, so I was glad to begin healing.
Doctorate degree in psychology…In 18 years as a professional . Is she kidding? She does not know the benefit of an emotional breakdown and she calls herself a psychiatrist. An emotional breakdown is a good thing for a rape survivor. It meant I could begin to heal and stop living a false, fake, phony life with stockholm syndrome and programming. It meant my real self could come up and surface and heal.
Elizabeth smart needs an emotional breakdown. The sooner, the better, if she was truly harmed or raped at all.
I guess it depends on what is meant by “emotional breakdown” …to what extreme? Hospitalization? Drug therapy? Neither of those are good, but you are correct Jane. Finally hitting those emotional places of the mind that hold the deep truths, and the most painful emotions, and allowing them to release after decades…..is the only way to begin true healing.
The therapy that I have is very gentle, in that a person never has to be hospitalized or treated with drugs when they break through.
Alethea
Please do not speculate on what has occurred in the healing process for Elizabeth or her family. More often than not, these things are not public.
Yes these things are made public. People who try and deceive or swindle others are usually not very smart. Wow! THeir last names are smart and that is ironic. Wow! They are not smart and they have left their own paper trail to prove it. The videos and etc.
When people lie they usually have to tell many more lies to cover the one or first few lies they tell. It just keeps snowballing from their. If a crook were smart (or the smarts), they would have studied trauma, rape, stockholm syndrome and then began telling the story of the kidnapping after grooming elizabeth smart. This is where they made their mistakes. They did not suspect that anyone would question their story or examine it as Alethea has done on this blog. Thank You! The story is full of erroneous errors that this blog points that out clearly.
Thank you Jane. It is usually people who are willing to recognize ugly truths about their own psyche, who are able to see the B.S. in the “Smart story.”
@voice for a child:
I guess we can call this posting a projection. It is nincompoops like you who create psychological problems for people. You view the world through your own colored lenses, and forgo all the facts. You tell the perceived “victim” that that’s what he/she is: “a victim”. And then the, by you, perceived “victim” will start to feel that there is something wrong with him/her. Before you know it his/her life is a mess. I have seen cases where people, who weren’t victims, often started to think they were just because they were told how terrible their experience all was. This confabulation is induced by mental health professionals and/or societal mass hysteria. It tends to drag in more and more people, without reason or rhyme. A famous example is The Salem Witch Hunt.
Yes, there are children that are abused, and yes, society must act on this. However, like others, I strongly suspect that Elizabeth Smart enjoyed the sex she had with her “captor” and the attention he gave her, and that she chose to be with him. She had many chances to flee, but she never did!
It is not the act of sex that is the bad part of it all (which can be mutually enjoyable for the parties involved – Case in point: Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kay_Letourneau). It is the forced and unwanted trespassing of the boundaries of a persons psychological/physical integrity that is the crime. But somehow, when sex or religion is involved, the crowd becomes easily excited and judgmental, and throw all reason overboard. While on many other issues like poverty or murder (more prevalent in society) they yawn, say “oh dear, how sad”, roll over and go back to sleep. You obviously are one of the crowd!
Chances are that you choose your profession because of unresolved issues you have yourself. If I ever would need a psychologist, I know of at least one who’s services I will not use!!
sHE saw a psych with her parents present. SOMETHING IS SUPER FISHY. my son was sexually assaulted by an 80 year old man. He went to counseling and I was told day one that I would not be allowed in the counseling sessions. They said it would hinder his progress greatly because no child was ever able to just be himself and open up with a parent present. They absolutely vetoed or refused to accept or allow me in that counseling room for any of his sessions. i was allowed to speak to the therapist afterwards or at the end of his sessions. However, even then, we could not speak in front of my son or allow him to hear us talking. He was given the utmost respect and privacy and the therapist only shared what she found necessary for his recovery, as far what he was sharing with her. The boundaries and privacy of my son were never broken, except when it meant keeping him safe. LONG STORY SHORT, SOMETHING IS DEFINETLY NOT RIGHT ABOUT THE PARENTS GOING INTO MS SMART COUNSELING SESSIONS. I CANT BELIEVE THEY WERE ALLOWED TO DO THAT. THAT TOTALLY HINDERS HER GETTING ANY RECOVERY AT ALL. IT SOUNDS CONTROLLING AND AWFUL AND SELFISH ON THE PARENTS PART. THEY ARE UP SO SOMETHING AND USING THIS GIRL FOR FAME AND FORTUNE. THIS IS SAD WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF TRULYHAVE BEEN RAPED AND THEY ARE MAKING A MOCK OF RAPE FOR FAME AND FORTUNE AND SELFISH REASONS. I AM DISGUSTED.
More excellent points Jane. Good job!
and you are right, it is a mockery of true victims. The more I read your comments, the less I believe her.
I feel the same way about your comments. The more I read them, the more I understand what you are saying about her fabricated story and how things do not add up. On the Oprah Show she sounded so ignorant and I could not believe she was being asked questions about rape and trauma as if she was an expert. The whole show was a sham and a mockery.
Me. I loved my father the rapist. I began to have ‘an affair’ with him as a child and enjoyed having sex with him.
I am feeling a lot of shame and shock as I can identify with what you wrote. I was raped by a boy as a child and I felt like I was having an affair or married to him and I began to enjoy the sex with him also. I guess I feel shy and shameful to admit this. It feels like I am making what he did right or something. I know this is not true and my body just responded as it was made to respond.
However, it was suppose to respond this way to someone I give consent to and not a rapist. Rape is rape and wrong is wrong! I feel free as I admit this truth regards finding enjoyment with the sexual contact. I wish I had not but it happened.
I wrote affair because the boy who raped me had a girlfriend and I found after the rape had occurred. I was powerless at that point to do anything about it. This made the relationship for lack of a better word, feel like an “affair” to my child’s mind. I knew something was not right about him having two girls in his life and being sexual with both of us. She lived in a nearby town. I verbalized my disdain for this by calling it an affair.
It is liberating to admit it, isn’t is Jane?
Yes. It sure is. Thanks for understanding.
These seem like dangerous speculations. Sure, Smart sounds like an unreliable witness. She sounds nuts, but this could be from a number of causes. We have no way to know for sure what happened to her.
“Dangerous” speculations? Dangerous for who?
No. Pedophiles are dangerous. Bank robbers are dangerous. Parents are dangerous. As is cigarette smoke, kittens with their sharp claws, and…the world.
We don’t know for sure what happened to Elizabeth. But speculations can be made. Lawyers take speculations and make them into opening and closing arguments that they try to base on fact, emotion, evidence, conscience, etc.
Dangerous? Yes, I ask in unison with the author of this article, dangerous for whom?
Those that are disturbed by the idea of the bublles that allow them to live in la-la land being popped?
If so…IT’S ABOUT TIME!
Serieve, you were awesome in this post!
Bottom line, those who try and suppress truth, or opinions contrary to the social norms, are the dangerous ones!
Or she was already abused and used to it. So it didnt mean much to her. Something isnt right about this story. Mormons are also a masonic church. And many churches are used as fronts for satanic/ritual abuse activity.
They say molesters choose kids who have already been abused.
If she was forced to particpate in all those acts, and she was raised by a family who didn’t teach her to think well, she could have developed a personality who “doesn’t need therapy” to deal with this all and remain in denial.
I agree with you 100% about the Elizabeth Smart case, and I am so happy to find someone who shares my views! This girl is either lying or is completely repressing her feelings. I personally think that she is lying based on many statements from her own mouth. I just recently started looking into this case because of Elizabeth’s recent appearances on television. I was watching old videos and reading statements she had made about the case, and I thought to myself that something was not right. I was actually starting to feel bad about myself because I was physically abused (not even sexually) by both my parents, and this has significantly affected my life – including my married life and sexual relations. I have had tons of problems because of physical abuse alone. I am also a religious person, and I do rely on God. This is why I am still alive today. I guess I just wasn’t “special” enough for God to heal me instantaneously, like he supposedly did Elizabeth.
I was also very insulted by the fact that Elizabeth said in an interview with Oprah that she didn’t need therapy and that her mother told her one day “You know, Elizabeth, you can either, you know, forgive them and move on and just forget that it ever happened to you and just, you know, continue on in your life or….” So Elizabeth explains that she chose to take the advice of her mother and “forget” about everything. I guess this would be easy if NOTHING ever happened. In discussing how she has been able to miraculously get over her trauma Elizabeth stated to Oprah “If a person dwells upon something it is harder for them to move on.” I guess the PTSD, severe anxiety disorder, and flashbacks are all my fault and the fault of every other survivor of abuse!!!
The worst thing that I heard come out of her mouth, and convinced me that she is a liar, is when she stated on Oprah that she is “no longer sorry that this happened to her.” ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!? She says that this “experience” has opened her eyes and made her see a “much bigger picture” than she was previously aware of. She goes on to state that she was just an average 14 year old who went to junior high. She stated “you know, just very narrow sighted, so having this experience really opened my eyes to the world around me.” This sounds like a girl describing a cross country joy ride in her parents car with friends. Elizabeth then goes on to admit how incredibly sheltered her life was at the time. Elizabeth wanted an escape from her “sheltered” life, and I believe that she went with this man because he convinced her that she would have fun with him galavanting the countryside, going to parties and doing drugs. I am sure that she was a typical rebellious teenager who wanted to have fun and escape the rigidity of her paren’ts household – for while at least. I am sure there is way more to this family that goes on behind closed doors.
Anyone who has ever suffered from any type of abuse knows that just walking away from a trauma like this is impossible. I do not care what religion you are. Elizabeth Smart and her family are doing such a disservice to women and girls by minimizing the effects of abuse. I am disgusted that she is being held up as this poster child for survivors of abuse! And I am outraged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Car Lady, welcome and thank you for posting your thoughts!
I too am happy that you found my articles and feel as I do. I too lean more towards E. Smart being a liar than repressing all of her trauma. She doesn’t fit the profile of one who represses. She was rescued (found), she was able to talk about it to people, and she was told that it did indeed happen to her. Children and teens who repress traumatic experiences are almost always not rescued, they are not allowed to express their pain to anyone, and family members deny that any abuse happened to them.
Nevertheless, even if she has been validated and able to speak about what she went through, this will NOT get rid of her trauma. The subconscious and physical affects of being raped daily, tied to a tree, threatened with death with a knife, and made to engage in vile sex acts does not magically disappear by talking to your parents, horseback riding, harp playing and signing some bills to enact laws.
I too have felt she has self-incriminated Have you read my other article on her?
Her old videos and statements right after her “rescue” also made me think that something was not right. I have not seen her recently but I tend to value her earlier statements because they will be more true and raw. By now, she has convinced herself and the world that she was a victim 100% –something I do not yet buy.
I too felt very badly about myself! I cried and was thinking that something was wrong with me because I had so many psychological and phsycial problems from my experience with rape, threats of death with a knife and isolation etc.
It’s so interesting to me that you were physically, but not sexually abused, and you still suffer more than E. Smart.
So many children who have been sexually or physically abused have loved God during their abuse, and after. So many of them talked to God and their angels, but still suffered greatly after the abuse ended, and did so into adulthood.
“I guess I just wasn’t “special” enough for God to heal me instantaneously, like he supposedly did Elizabeth.”
I love this statement.
“I was also very insulted by the fact that Elizabeth said in an interview with Oprah that she didn’t need therapy and that her mother told her one day “You know, Elizabeth, you can either, you know, forgive them and move on and just forget that it ever happened to you and just, you know, continue on in your life or….” So Elizabeth explains that she chose to take the advice of her mother and “forget” about everything. I guess this would be easy if NOTHING ever happened.”
Yes, I heard that statement too and it sounded to me more like a mother telling her runaway daughter that she needs to forgive herself for doing what she did and for how badly it turned out –that she needs to forget about what SHE did, not what THEY did.
“In discussing how she has been able to miraculously get over her trauma Elizabeth stated to Oprah “If a person dwells upon something it is harder for them to move on.” I guess the PTSD, severe anxiety disorder, and flashbacks are all my fault and the fault of every other survivor of abuse!!!”
I love this! I too must be at fault for all of the physical suffering and psychological disorders I have endured. Gee, if only I had just not “dwelled on it and moved on!” Well, I have news for Ms. Smart. I did in a sense do just this as a child. I repressed everything completely and it all came back to hit me when I was in my early thirties, because the subconscious mind DOES NOT let things go. The subconscious mind carries all of the trauma and emotions felt at the time of the abuse and threats. The subconscious will NOT let that go until it is healed at the subconscious level. This is why talk therapy, and ‘talking to your parents’ doesn’t heal a person.
“The worst thing that I heard come out of her mouth, and convinced me that she is a liar, is when she stated on Oprah that she is “no longer sorry that this happened to her.” ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!? She says that this “experience” has opened her eyes and made her see a “much bigger picture” than she was previously aware of.”
I took this to mean that she realized that she didn’t have it so bad at home when she felt confined by two strict parents and that her adventure did not turn out like she had expected. I took this that she found out what it’s like to be hungry and how the homeless live, compared to her comfortable home in Utah. I felt that she was saying that she now realizes that running away wasn’t such a good idea after-all.
“She goes on to state that she was just an average 14 year old who went to junior high. She stated “you know, just very narrow sighted, so having this experience really opened my eyes to the world around me.” This sounds like a girl describing a cross country joy ride in her parents car with friends.”
Or like a girl who went to a poor country on her parents’ money to see how the other side of the world lives, and realized how good she has it. This does not sound like a girl who was kidnapped, traumatized and raped up to four times a day.
“Elizabeth then goes on to admit how incredibly sheltered her life was at the time. Elizabeth wanted an escape from her “sheltered” life, and I believe that she went with this man because he convinced her that she would have fun with him galavanting the countryside, going to parties and doing drugs. I am sure that she was a typical rebellious teenager who wanted to have fun and escape the rigidity of her paren’ts household – for while at least.”
Yes yes. I too share your belief. She might have gotten more than she bargained for, but I too feel this is what happened in the beginning.
“I am sure there is way more to this family that goes on behind closed doors.”
Amen to that!
“Anyone who has ever suffered from any type of abuse knows that just walking away from a trauma like this is impossible. I do not care what religion you are. Elizabeth Smart and her family are doing such a disservice to women and girls by minimizing the effects of abuse. I am disgusted that she is being held up as this poster child for survivors of abuse! And I am outraged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
ME TOO! Thank you for posting! It’s nice to know we are not alone in our feelings. I’m sure there are others out there too.
I agree with a lot about this case but her going with him to galavant across the country side doing drugs and going to parties because she had a sheltered life. I do not believe that AT ALL. I am very much into discerning the truth and this makes no sense at all. my brain will not allow that in at all. IT IS SILLY AND RIDICULOUS. She was a child and even if that happened, he duped a child’s mind and that is wrong. That would not be her fault at all. I recall looking at an Oprah show and she said that if a young girl comes into a room and she is 9 years old and naked it is not her fault if she is sexually assaulted by a grown man. The fault is with the adult. The things she said to Oprah. I am outraged by all the above comments. The things said make her look not very smart at all and like an imbecile or stupid person! I am beyond angry about the comments above. Beyond…
Jill, nine is quite different from 14!
Countless 14 year-olds who are sick of restrictions, being sheltered, and religious parents run away and get into drugs and an entirely different lifestyle. This is common knowledge.
I may just take your word for this. I am in unfamiliar terrritory. I can not identify with being ready for such behavior at 14 due to strict parents or religious ones. I was raped at 13 and being a Tom boy and climbing trees at 14 like nothing happened. I am saddened to know that this type of parenting is a catalyst for a child to venture into such an awful lifestyle.
I watched the Oprah interview. Oprah said, you were able to go and get in your bed and everything the first night!!! Oprah was so shocked ! Oprah was sexually assaulted and that is why she is shocked. I dont think she clues in on Ms Smart being an imbecile or totally clueless about trauma rape and recovery but she is aware her story sounds fishy or funny.
I agree Jill. Oprah knows that if she called her on the bullshit, then Oprah would be slammed. I however, don’t care if people slam me. Sometimes it pays to be no body in particular.
🙂
I just had to post this comment below. It really says a lot about Ed Smart and his so called love for his daughter! He actually made a comment like this, I just wish the guy would take a plea deal so this could all be over. I think I see why Ms. Smart is so bizarre and acts so strange or lifeless. Her parents or her dad is a piece of work. They seem to think and act different from the norm. Normal people or a dad whose daughter was raped would want the kidnappers head on a chopping block (veangence) and not a plea deal. Mr. Smart bypassed all normal human emotions! Perhaps he is not even human. 🙂 The comment is from this website: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/03/elizabeth_smart.html
I wasn’t there. But if my 15 yo daughter was kidnapped at gunpoint and forced to… and they catch the guy, I don’t think my response would be the same as Ed Smart’s: “I just wish he would take a plea deal so this could all be over.” I’m not saying he has to pull a Ransom, in which Mel Gibson goes on TV to announce that the ransom money will be instead be paid as a bounty on the heads of the kidnappers–
— but no anger? None? No desire for any vengeance? I know, I know, he’s religious. Me, too.
What is a plea bargain n. in criminal procedure, a negotiation between the defendant and his attorney on one side and the prosecutor on the other, in which the defendant agrees to plead “guilty” or “no contest” to some crimes, in return for reduction of the severity of the charges, dismissal of some of the charges, the prosecutor’s willingness to recommend a particular sentence, or some other benefit to the defendant.
Reasons for the bargaining include a desire to cut down on the number of trials, danger to the defendant of a long term in prison if convicted after trial, and the ability to get information on criminal activity from the defendant.
Talkingbbok; you’re right about abusers choosing weak and already-abused kids. That’s why I find it hard to believe she was such a victim at his hands –E. Smart does not portray a victim-like personality. She seems to be very intelligent, strong-willed, strong-minded -and in my opinion- calculating.
I have to agree with this regarding weak already abused kids being chosen! I was a weak, already abused child and I had a victim like personality for sure. Three rapists chose me to sexually abuse before the age of 18.
I could not have been abducted like she supposedly was and then went on a national talk show and talked about it with a well known celebrity like Oprah . This girl is either lying or an incredible actress or both. I love how this blog points out what abused or raped people (like me) act like and then I can contrast it with how ms. smart acts and I can see that she is lying. There is enough evidence on this blog to prosecute ms. smart for pergury! ! ! I sure wish something could be done about this huge story she has made up. I am just stumped as to how she could be so strong if she was raped all those times. I am still in recovery for trauma! She is a liar or an attention seeker. Who can we complain about this to? It is awful!
“There is enough evidence on this blog to prosecute ms. smart for pergury! ! ! I sure wish something could be done about this huge story she has made up. I am just stumped as to how she could be so strong if she was raped all those times. I am still in recovery for trauma! She is a liar or an attention seeker. Who can we complain about this to? It is awful!”
Cathy, I LOVE your willingness to do something –to stop injustice!
I think my Blog has already opened a door to people seeing that something is fishy and that what she says to victims is NOT OKAY.
There is freedom of speech, so she can say what she wants, even if dangerous. And as far as the purgery, someone would have to convince the D.A. and most of America, that Ms. Smart is lying about something. I think that she has, by now, convinced most everyone that she is an innocent “miracle” woman who is protected by God and that Mormonism saved her. I call bullshit on that one, becasue what does that tell the countless victims and survivors, who also have God in their life? It says to them, “you are nothing special in the eyes of God,” or “you don’t pray hard enough,” or “God doesn’t love you like he does Elizabeth.”
/////// I think that she has, by now, convinced most everyone that she is an innocent “miracle” woman who is protected by God and that Mormonism saved her. I call bullshit on that one, becasue what does that tell the countless victims and survivors, who also have God in their life? It says to them, “you are nothing special in the eyes of God,” or “you don’t pray hard enough,” or “God doesn’t love you like he does Elizabeth.”
I am glad I operate with or and use discernment! My eyes are wide open! If a perpetrator had raped her, mormonism would not be able to save her from the consequences of their actions and God would have protected her, by storing the memories in her brain for a time when she was ready for them to surface and be processed.
I was upset with God about how I was sexually assaulted at such young tender ages. I asked all the why questions to try and understand. I am now at peace with God! I know in my heart that I was indeed protected in many ways. I am here to tell my story to others for one!
I never thought about how Ms. Smart is telling victims:
you are nothing special in the eyes of God,” or “you don’t pray hard enough,” or “God doesn’t love you like he does Elizabeth.” ==========WOW! That is for sure the message she sends to those who hear her story! I have grown a bit and I do not receive her story that way. But there was a time when I processed things in a way that was just like that. I would always surmise that a person was loved more than me or more special than me if they were able to overcome something that I just could not seem to get over. I am glad I have grown but I am outraged that she is sending this unloving message out to others in the name of GOOD! Yuk! She needs to save herself (from drowning) first before she attempts to try and save anyone else!!!
p.s. I just watched Nancy Grace interview her and I can tell she is an actress. There is no passion in her voice. It is so flat and she gathers her words and speaks and seems to enjoy the attention or fame. Is she insane??? I guess I am hoping she is! How can a normal person do what she is doing???
Nancy Grace asked her how she was able to see out of the berka and she got upset and only wanted to talk about the bill she is pushing through and not speak out to other victims as Nancy Grace said she was attempting to get her to do so with her questions about things other than the bill. IF SHE IS SO MIRACULOUSLY HEALED WHY CAN’T SHE SPEAK ABOUT THE TIME SHE SPENT AROUND THE PERPETRATOR. I AM SICK OF VICTIMS WHO SAY THEY ARE HEALED BUT THEY CAN NOT SPEAK ABOUT THE ABUSE. THAT IS BULL_ _ _ _ . If true healing has occurred a victim can speak about it. THIS is a pet peeve of mine and maybe not others. A few people tried to help me recover who were supposedly healed of sexual abuse but they could not speak about the sexual abuse and I did not feel a kindred spirit with them. I ceased all communication!!!!
I think my Blog has already opened a door to people seeing that something is fishy and that what she says to victims is NOT OKAY. THANK YOU! ! !
Thank you Cathy. You can tel in that interview with Nancy that Elizabeth is looking up/over at someone right behind the scenes, getting their instructions on what to say. She even laughs at Nancy Grace. I bet it was one or both of her parents.
You are correct; people who cannot speak about the abuse in any kind of depth, are not healed. Alicia Kozakiewicz was kidnapped, raped, and tortured for 3 days, and she has openly admitted to not being healed, and still struggles with symptoms from the trauma. Alicia however, helps thousands by trying to stop Internet sex crimes, and by getting bills passed. She has never told victims how to heal or how they can heal. She sticks to what she knows.
That’s why I have always said that Elizabeth ought to go back to playing her harp and get out of the business of “helping” severe trauma victims.
Andre, I’ve never found myself needing or wanting to bow to anyone – but you may be the exception!
Or it meant an incredible amount to her, as it did in my experience, but as you say, she was used to it. It had become ‘normalized.’ Really, once you are abused by one person, what’s a stranger in a robe? Yes, that is meant to be both serious and sarcastic.
I have always wondered if Elizabeth and Mary Katherine were sexually abused by someone within their immediate ‘family.’ Their father. An uncle. A priest. A teacher. Their mother. An aunt. A grandparent. A cousin. A sibling. SOMEBODY. My guess is within the family. A close blood relative.
It is my OPINION – read, opinion, NOT granite – that it is likely that Elizabeth and her siblings come from an abusive immediate family in some form.
There I said it.
And these are my words. They don’t reflect this blog.
“Mormons are also a masonic church”
Part of the problem with the Smart case is that people keep mixing their religion with this crime, but its only a crime and justice needs to be served regardless of the religion some of the people are, since Mitchell created his own religion.
Unfortunately so called religion plays a part in ritual child abuse.
That is the most unreliable, inaccurate statement I have read about any religion. I am not Mormon, although I try to educate myself before saying something so outrageous and profiling as you put here. All I can say is, “Wow,” I hope these are not the family discussions around the dinner table at your house, if so, children you may have, will endure many difficulties if they cannot see through your prejudices.
It’s really scary what happened to her and I believe Elizabeth is trying to put a bold face so her kidnapper would face full judgment. Not many of us can do that… We hide behind everything and people wonder why we are strange.
Is a good one that she can stand up to put her abductors behind bars, she was a minor when this happened so what ever the case may be ….either a conspiracy or the actual truth…. She needs our support and help.
My story is different …not 9 months but 9 years. I believe it started when I was 3 years…. I’ve never really had the courage to share except to about two Catholic Priests….I’m not totally healed of it and know i would be better if the person who assaulted me is punished… I hope to have the courage one day to do that. It’s almost two decades ago and I don’t have any happiness in me; I am even a stranger to myself.
If anyone can help, I’m open to suggestions on how to be healed …you can send me a mail on bfree_3@yahoo.com
Dear Tiffany,
“I am even a stranger to myself.”
How well I know that feeling!!!! Thank you for putting it into words. In all my years of healing, I have realized that, the incest was not the only things that made me not know who I truly am, but that we as human beings in general do not know WHO we truly are unless we dig deep into ourselves and find out Divine nature and that we are spiritual beings, not physical ones.
I am Catholic and happy to know that you have had a good experience with priests. I too have had a very good experience with the priests in my adult life. In spite of what the media and general public want to put forth about priests, there are an abundance of beautifully spiritual, loving priests who are TRUE priests.
I have to truthful with you Tiffany, I do not feel that Elizabeth Smart needs my support. I can’t support a person (abused and raped or not) who has harmed a lot of abuse and rape survivors with her ‘holier than thou’ 72-hour recovery advice. Help her? With what? She has made it clear that she is “fine” and needs no help from anyone.
If you truly want to heal, you should contact my therapist. You can visit her blog to learn about her and the therapy she does. http://ysatisdesaintsimone.wordpress.com/
She truly works miracles. I would have been dead, or on drugs and divorced by now…but I am NOT and I am well on my way to living a full and beautiful life. One day I will be fully healed and will thrive and be free of all symptoms of the incest. I am almost there, but still have a little more work to be done.
You can contact me if you would like my therapist’s contact information. She has just moved to Los Angeles Calif, so she has new info. She does the therapy via phone (preferred method for most of her patients) so all you need is a will to heal and a telephone.
Alethea
sanjuanangel7@yahoo.com